[Craig Sweet]

I like the chair lift example...despite what Melvyn says the earliest SKIERS had to WALK...CLIMB...for their turns...I could just as easily have the opinion that you are nor SKIING if you ride a chairlift for your turns.

Never the less...I am ALWAYS playing GOLF whether I walk or ride....

And Melvyn, tonight at supper when you push that bite of food onto your fork with your knife, be aware, you are not EATING unless you use your fingers and hands.

[PCCraig]

Ops Pat, perhaps this is a lesson to engage your brain before opening your mouth.

Think you owe Garland one hell of an apology, but are you man enough to do so?

Melvyn

Ops. Perhaps you confused an official USGA document with a link to an outdated, spam filled, "walkinggolf.com"

Again, even if the USGA did release a statement regarding carts, how do they call golf with a cart "cartball", without ever using the term "cartball?"

Melvyn,

I agree with Sven. I think you should take up membership over at Golfwrx.com and preach to people who actually take carts versus the 1200 or so members here who rarely do so and walk the vast majority of the time.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Robin

Trollies, by far better than carts and certainly a good friend to the Ladies, the more mature player and a very familiar scene at many a golf club today. If the choice was carts, or trollies, as carrying perhaps in not an option then trollies must come in a first by miles IMHO.  I was at Moray GC last year and watched a day’s golf from the terraces to the front of the club house. It was a wonder to see many a Lady, some in the autumn of their lives pushing their trolley. Yet of the two carts at the club I noticed a fit your able body guy in his 30’s jump on the carts and go alone down the fairway in pursuit of his ball – after witnessing the Ladies it was rather a rude awaking as to how the game is imploding.

My father was a user of caddies, but just to carry the bag, he was clear on that from the start, no help, please just carry the bag. I am not a use of caddies and when my back started its long disagreement with the game of golf I used a trolley     
many a time. I even tried the carts a few times but just found them like wearing a wellington boot when having sex, removes you from all the pleasures leaving you empty and unsatisfied, questioning if you wanted to repeat the experience. The answer in my case was no so left the cart, - sounds like one of the tests Jesus was put through, like him I came out by saying ‘get thee behind me Satin’ so continued to enjoy the full pleasures the game can offer a golfer.

Not keen on the electric models, last time I looked and that was some years ago they were very heavy due to the batteries, plus somewhat uncooperative at times.

As for the physical difference between trolley and carrying, I would say that there is still a requirement of effort to push or pull the trolley which must be close to the effects of a fit golfer carrying his clubs. That excursion matched with walking must be close or comparable to carrying IMHO so the choice is down to the golfer, after all my point is that he/she is walking the course allowing for the eyes and body to react to the nature of the course be it via the Designer of Nature itself.

As for your skiing comment, yes I did like the madness of it.

Melvyn   

[Melvyn Morrow]

Craig

I just love your ignorance, you wear it like a badge of honour.

The Dirk, the knife set worn in one socks or other part of the kilt has accessories subject to your standing. These come with a long blade circa 12” main knife, with two more attachments built into the scabbard, one being a smaller knife approx. 6” blade and the lower one is a fork. So you would never find a good Scott unprepared, actually in the past some were far more civilised and could eat his kill with knife and fork. Before that the knife was used not just to cut but to take the meat to the mouth.

I should not expect much from a guy who states that he is playing golf even if he rides a cart, but then I don’t. 

Pat

Why am I not surprised that you have not apologises for what you said the Garland. You have no style let alone class, not the ability to know when you are not just wrong but out of order.  Pity you did not read my posts on this subject otherwise you would not have made your last statement re the 1200 but then that’s you, never engaging your brain before opening that mouth of yours.

You were wrong to say what you did to Garland, just admit and clear the air.


Alas the foolishness of youth, although by their age one might have hoped they would have more of an understanding. Apparently not, but hope does, they say, springs eternal.


Melvyn

[PCCraig]

Craig

I just love your ignorance, you wear it like a badge of honour.

The Dirk, the knife set worn in one socks or other part of the kilt has accessories subject to your standing. These come with a long blade circa 12” main knife, with two more attachments built into the scabbard, one being a smaller knife approx. 6” blade and the lower one is a fork. So you would never find a good Scott unprepared, actually in the past some were far more civilised and could eat his kill with knife and fork. Before that the knife was used not just to cut but to take the meat to the mouth.

I should not expect much from a guy who states that he is playing golf even if he rides a cart, but then I don’t. 

Pat

Why am I not surprised that you have not apologises for what you said the Garland. You have no style let alone class, not the ability to know when you are not just wrong but out of order.  Pity you did not read my posts on this subject otherwise you would not have made your last statement re the 1200 but then that’s you, never engaging your brain before opening that mouth of yours.

You were wrong to say what you did to Garland, just admit and clear the air.


Alas the foolishness of youth, although by their age one might have hoped they would have more of an understanding. Apparently not, but hope does, they say, springs eternal.


Melvyn

Hey Melvyn,

Did you hear that??













That was Old Tom rolling in his grave.

[Peter Sayegh]

Melvyn,
The original question has long since died so I offer my opinion. I admire your passion.
Polo is field hockey with horses-that's your argument. A different game. Fine.

However, please don't use words like "elemental" or "God's gifts" in your argument. Do you use steel shafts? Is your featherie made by Titleist?
Golf has got to be the only "sport"(hobby) that touts WALKING...WALKING as a testament to its arduousness.

I reside in Myrtle Beach which must be the golf cart capital of the world. People "walk" their dogs with a leash trailing from the driver's side. Does it bother me? Yes. But it's still walking the dog. To each...

Does anyone FISH without rod and net anymore? Good for them!

[John Kavanaugh]

Melvyn,

I thought you asked a simple question.  A clear answer is the beloved Kapalua Plantation course designed by Coore and Crenshaw.  I've included a link to their rate sheet where, and I called to verify, carts are included in the greenfee.  The kicker is a publicized rider fee of $28 in case someone wants to catch a ride for the views but not golf.  They not only promote the golfer to take a cart, they hope your gallery rides along to watch.

Oh do I hope some scofflaw pays only the rider fee for their partner and then lets him/her hit a shot or two.  I would love to see their face when an additional greenfee, minus the rider fee of course, is on their bill upon checkout.

http://www.kapalua.com/index.php/maui-hawaii-golf-courses/kapalua-golf-rates

[Melvyn Morrow]

Thanks John

Melvyn

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Kapalua is a RESORT course,not a PRIVATE club.

Resort courses lead the way in "promoting" the use of carts. Even though in many places they're mandatory, that shouldn't stop one from walking while another rides.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kapalua is a RESORT course,not a PRIVATE club.

Resort courses lead the way in "promoting" the use of carts. Even though in many places they're mandatory, that shouldn't stop one from walking while another rides.

The line between private and resort is far too muddled to pull hairs.  I would say that the few truly private courses left in the US do promote walking very strongly.  Well, maybe not the Alotian.                                                                 

[Garland Bayley]

Melvyn whilst not disagreeing with you "cartball"'is your terminology no one else's.

...

The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball. Therefore the term cartball has been used on this website for a few years now from that derivation.

So you're saying the USGA calls it "cartball"...without ever using the term "cartball." Ever.

You've been quoting this mysterious USGA booklet for a few years now. Care to actually post it? Or is it a special edition that resides only in your mind?

The "Golf is a Walking Game" pamphlet accompanied the "walking member" tag which you could get by checking the appropriate box on a USGA membership form. The bag tag is circular and yellow. The booklet featured Snoopy and advocated the many advantages to walking. I have a copy somewhere amongst my things.

If it is only in my mind, then Kyle and I happily share the same delusion.

But since you want more evidence here is a link to the first result of my Bing search.

http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html

Get over yourself Pat.

[PCCraig]

Melvyn whilst not disagreeing with you "cartball"'is your terminology no one else's.

...

The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball. Therefore the term cartball has been used on this website for a few years now from that derivation.

So you're saying the USGA calls it "cartball"...without ever using the term "cartball." Ever.

You've been quoting this mysterious USGA booklet for a few years now. Care to actually post it? Or is it a special edition that resides only in your mind?

The "Golf is a Walking Game" pamphlet accompanied the "walking member" tag which you could get by checking the appropriate box on a USGA membership form. The bag tag is circular and yellow. The booklet featured Snoopy and advocated the many advantages to walking. I have a copy somewhere amongst my things.

If it is only in my mind, then Kyle and I happily share the same delusion.

But since you want more evidence here is a link to the first result of my Bing search.

http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html

Get over yourself Pat.

Nowhere on this site ( http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html ) is "cartball" mentioned. Which doesn't answer my question stemming from your original nonsensical post:

"The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball."

I understand that at one point in time, the USGA published said booklet. But you constantly paraphrase from it without actually giving the original text or context. Which isn't even paraphrasing but posting your own beliefs then hiding behind some booklet.

When you start using brain cells, I'll "get over myself."

[Garland Bayley]

Melvyn whilst not disagreeing with you "cartball"'is your terminology no one else's.

...

The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball. Therefore the term cartball has been used on this website for a few years now from that derivation.

So you're saying the USGA calls it "cartball"...without ever using the term "cartball." Ever.

You've been quoting this mysterious USGA booklet for a few years now. Care to actually post it? Or is it a special edition that resides only in your mind?

The "Golf is a Walking Game" pamphlet accompanied the "walking member" tag which you could get by checking the appropriate box on a USGA membership form. The bag tag is circular and yellow. The booklet featured Snoopy and advocated the many advantages to walking. I have a copy somewhere amongst my things.

If it is only in my mind, then Kyle and I happily share the same delusion.

But since you want more evidence here is a link to the first result of my Bing search.

http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html

Get over yourself Pat.

Nowhere on this site ( http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html ) is "cartball" mentioned. Which doesn't answer my question stemming from your original nonsensical post:

"The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball."

I understand that at one point in time, the USGA published said booklet. But you constantly paraphrase from it without actually giving the original text or context. Which isn't even paraphrasing but posting your own beliefs then hiding behind some booklet.

When you start using brain cells, I'll "get over myself."

From the site.

“Play the game the way it was meant to be played. If you’re not walking, you’re not playing golf. You might be playing “cart-ball,” but it’s not golf.”

To paraphrase Shakespeare, much ado about a hyphen.

[PCCraig]

Melvyn whilst not disagreeing with you "cartball"'is your terminology no one else's.

...

The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball. Therefore the term cartball has been used on this website for a few years now from that derivation.

So you're saying the USGA calls it "cartball"...without ever using the term "cartball." Ever.

You've been quoting this mysterious USGA booklet for a few years now. Care to actually post it? Or is it a special edition that resides only in your mind?

The "Golf is a Walking Game" pamphlet accompanied the "walking member" tag which you could get by checking the appropriate box on a USGA membership form. The bag tag is circular and yellow. The booklet featured Snoopy and advocated the many advantages to walking. I have a copy somewhere amongst my things.

If it is only in my mind, then Kyle and I happily share the same delusion.

But since you want more evidence here is a link to the first result of my Bing search.

http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html

Get over yourself Pat.

Nowhere on this site ( http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html ) is "cartball" mentioned. Which doesn't answer my question stemming from your original nonsensical post:

"The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball."

I understand that at one point in time, the USGA published said booklet. But you constantly paraphrase from it without actually giving the original text or context. Which isn't even paraphrasing but posting your own beliefs then hiding behind some booklet.

When you start using brain cells, I'll "get over myself."

From the site.

“Play the game the way it was meant to be played. If you’re not walking, you’re not playing golf. You might be playing “cart-ball,” but it’s not golf.”

To paraphrase Shakespeare, much ado about a hyphen.

You're quoting from a website selling Golf-D’Lite® bag-things, which in turn is allegedly quoting a USGA document. I'm sure that would hold up in court...

[Garland Bayley]

Melvyn whilst not disagreeing with you "cartball"'is your terminology no one else's.

...

The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball. Therefore the term cartball has been used on this website for a few years now from that derivation.

So you're saying the USGA calls it "cartball"...without ever using the term "cartball." Ever.

You've been quoting this mysterious USGA booklet for a few years now. Care to actually post it? Or is it a special edition that resides only in your mind?

The "Golf is a Walking Game" pamphlet accompanied the "walking member" tag which you could get by checking the appropriate box on a USGA membership form. The bag tag is circular and yellow. The booklet featured Snoopy and advocated the many advantages to walking. I have a copy somewhere amongst my things.

If it is only in my mind, then Kyle and I happily share the same delusion.

But since you want more evidence here is a link to the first result of my Bing search.

http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html

Get over yourself Pat.

Nowhere on this site ( http://www.litegolf.net/usga.html ) is "cartball" mentioned. Which doesn't answer my question stemming from your original nonsensical post:

"The USGA published a booklet entitled as I recall, "Golf is a Walking Game". In that booklet, they wrote that if your are riding while playing you are not playing golf, but perhaps something that can be called cartball."

I understand that at one point in time, the USGA published said booklet. But you constantly paraphrase from it without actually giving the original text or context. Which isn't even paraphrasing but posting your own beliefs then hiding behind some booklet.

When you start using brain cells, I'll "get over myself."

From the site.

“Play the game the way it was meant to be played. If you’re not walking, you’re not playing golf. You might be playing “cart-ball,” but it’s not golf.”

To paraphrase Shakespeare, much ado about a hyphen.

You're quoting from a website selling Golf-D’Lite® bag-things, which in turn is allegedly quoting a USGA document. I'm sure that would hold up in court...

I'm quoting from such a website, because I don't think it is worth my time to scan the actual document and post it to satisfy the likes of your kind. Get over yourself.

[Brent Hutto]

With the badge of honor and all that, one wonders if the purpose of the club is playing golf or employing caddies. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I just thought the game was about chasing a little white ball around, not hiring someone to chase a little white ball for you. But then again I wasn't raised in a culture of Noblesse Oblige so I probably just don't understand.

[David_Tepper]

Brent H. & Brian S. -

Likewise, I would never join a golf club that insisted on mandatory caddies or carts (or valet parking!) at any time. However, the chances of me ever being invited to join such a golf club are rather remote, so it is unlikely my resolve will ever be tested.

DT   

[Lloyd_Cole]

I was an angry young man once, too 
Regarding the USGA and 'A Call to Feet' -

[Sven Nilsen]

Mel, a couple quick points to clarify my earlier post and to ensure you that one particular comment was not intended to offend.  I know you like to play the victim in these conversations, but please make an effort to understand the words being conveyed before crying persecution.

You guys, never in a million year would I have thought that those two words could be considered anything more than a term of endearment. When in the pub with friends or at home with family I ask if you guys want a drink, never believing I was doing a disservice or being unfriendly.

"You guys" as in "you guys may have accepted playing cartball"(your words) which sounds to me like you're blaming the GCA group.  The disservice is in coloring the group as a whole.  The words themselves are not offensive, but their usage is.  You might be better served with a statement like "those of you that have accepted playing cartball" or something of the same ilk.

But then I suppose when I see or read statements like "I'll be your huckleberry" it sound so offensive, questioning my sexuality.  

You missed something here. This is a quote from the movie Tombstone, and has nothing to do with questioning anyone's sexuality, but rather with stepping up to a challenge.  Maybe these references will help your comprehension:  http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-huc1.htm  and   http://home.earthlink.net/~knuthco1/Itemsofinterest1/huckleberrysource.htm    

[SL_Solow]

Shivas has it just right although some clubs in Chicago allow carts out without caddies.  Chick Evans started the Evans Scholar Foundation to encourage caddies recognizing all that golf had done for him.  While the WGA covers a wide geographical area, the support of the Evans Scholars is greatest in Chicago.  At virtually every club, a member's contribution to the Foundation is included in his bill, some allow you to opt out but opting out is frowned upon so that virtually every member pays.  We have learned that if you don't make caddies mandatory, or at least mandatory for walkers, their use dwindles.  Memberships have made a group decision that it is a better game when most people walk with caddies so the rule is enforced.  It also helps golf by exposing the next generation to golf.  Shivas' pointing to the number of former Evans Scholars who are at his club is powerful evidence of the impact of a caddy program.  If we want the game to survive, we need to expose the youth to golf.  Additionally, a good caddy program in which kids can make a decent amount of money while outdoors being exposed to the game and club members can create a tremendous amount of goodwill in a community.  Awarding scholarships adds to the goodwill.  So most, like Shivas, accept a minor infringement on their freedom to attain the other benefits.  Those who won't don't join clubs in this town

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Lloyd,

You hit the nail on the head   with the duplicity of the USGA & PGAT in using cart courses   for their tourneys while advising the public to walk.

Shel,

The previous thread on getting pull/push carts(trolleys) approved at private clubs pointed out the paradox for certain clubs in the Philadelphia area with an established walking/caddy culture. I noted the following:

Here's a report from my survey of the Philly area "old line" and some "new line" clubs:

Applebrook- allows use of their fleet of pull/push carts after 3pm with a charge of $12.
Cricket- "       "  "  after 2pm with a $10 charge
Stonewall- not available as they have an excellent caddie program.
Fieldstone- "     "     "
Whitemarsh- "    "    "
Bidermann- no restrictions on the use of pull/push carts. Members can bring their own or use the club's for $7.
Sunnybrook-   "     "     "  $10 charge
Gulph Mills- allows use
Wilmington- return call from pro never happened

Whitemarsh has had discussions but are concerned that the use of pull/push carts would destroy their excellent caddie program.

Of course, a certain course on the Main Line is walking only on of their 2 courses.

All of these clubs plus others such as Huntingdon Valley, Aronimink &Philmont have excellent caddy programs as well. GAP has a similar scholarship program here:

http://www.gapgolf.org/jwphome.asp

Not all clubs here have caddies available on location;some require a pre-arrangement,others are more cart friendly.

[Dan Boerger]

Lloyd - Great letter.

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