[Melvyn Morrow]

Clearly revenue is not an issue so can you name a list of private clubs in the US that advocate riding over walking. Perhaps you may also be able to offer an explanation as to why they are pro carts.

Melvyn

[A.G._Crockett]

Clearly revenue is not an issue so can you name a list of private clubs in the US that advocate riding over walking. Perhaps you may also be able to offer an explanation as to why they are pro carts.

Melvyn

Your premise is incorrect.  It is ALL about revenue.

[Mike_Young]

Clearly revenue is not an issue so can you name a list of private clubs in the US that advocate riding over walking. Perhaps you may also be able to offer an explanation as to why they are pro carts.

Melvyn

What?  Revenue is all they think about.  Our club is considering charging a fee to walk since cart rounds are down to nearly 50% of rounds.  I think most private clubs promote carts either directly or indirectly.

[Tim Martin]

Although I have always played as a guest I can`t recall seeing walkers at TPC River Highlands.

[Tom ORourke]

I feel that more promote riding than don't. Most private clubs I have visited do not let walkers out before 1:00 or so on weekends.

[Bill_McBride]

You can walk any time you want at my club, but the default position is the electric cart.  ("You riding today?"

Somebody's gotta pay for all those carts we lease!   

[Melvyn Morrow]

Only a couple of replies so far has given me any information as to the name of a club(s).

My question is fair and straight to the point, no point scoring, no seeking an argument just seeking information but as usual many do not read the question, I was just after information which is proving very hard these day to get out of other GCA.com Members.

I do not know the private club set up in the USA so was asking a simple question believing that revenue was not the issue, perhaps the past information gained from this site was wrong.

Thanks for your help and understanding or should I put that down to friendly fire scenario.

Melvyn

[Craig Sweet]

Why should it matter? A private club can do...promote...whatever it likes. If you don't want to ride a cart, or you don't like cart golf, find another club to join.  I suspect those clubs that promote riding do so for the revenue, or perhaps they feel they are offering a more popular option?

[Randy Thompson]

The list would be much shorter if asked, name private clubs in the US that promote walking instead of riding.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Craig

It matters to me as I am trying to find out about your private clubs. The Private clubs in the USA are different to our private clubs because over here we have an open door policy (on about 99% of our clubs) which I have been lead to believe is a No, No in the US. Clubs over there are private only accessible by an invitation from a Member.

Out of your private clubs I was just wondering as they appear to be the American bastion of Golf what their attitude to carts vs walking might be. Seems money is still an issue, yet these are the people that spend millions on buying vintage cars and antiques because they represent value in quality as well as in money terms, so thought that walking might trump carting.

I still believe that carting has an impact on GCA, in fact I believe a serious impact on design certainly on old existing courses.

Melvyn

Randy, Whatever, but so far no list at all.

[David Whitmer]

The club where I was the pro, Heritage Club (outside of Cincinnati), did not promote one or the other. We had a cart fleet, and we had a nice caddie program. Our members and their guests were going to get around the golf course however they wanted to do it, and we did not feel it was right to steer them in any direction. We never asked "Are you riding or walking?" Either they told us, or we just looked out the window at the first tee and saw what they were doing, and charged them if we needed to.

After a few years of operation, we were able to pretty accurately budget what the year's golf cart revenue would be, and during my entire tenure there it was always very accurate. So yes, the cart revenue was obviously important, but we did not push for more revenue than we knew we would get.

When we hosted outings on Mondays when the club was closed for members, we did require all participants to ride. The cost of the cart was built into the price per player we charged the outing group. I think requiring outside outing groups to ride is pretty standard at most private clubs, though I may be wrong.

[Melvyn Morrow]

David

Did your club have tracks or were carts allowed on the fairways? If so, how did they affect the course, by that did you notice by Monday evening any excessive wear and tear caused by the carts? Also was there any time during the year that carts were not actually used for any reason?

Melvyn

[Dan Boerger]

Well, you could call or email the private clubs yourself! Why get it second-hand when you can go right to the source?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Sorry Dan

I forgot the purpose of being a Member of this site is to be a sh*t and not help others. I should have in the past replied in that manner to the hundreds of e-mails asking me for information, but then if possible I have always tried to help others.

Silly, me must try harder to be a typical male ignorant bastard, yet I can't see me going down that path either by cart or walking.

I will of course try to help you (if possible) should you need some information in the future, so until then have a nice day and I will take you advice.

Melvyn 

[C. Squier]

Are you kidding?  Are you really surprised to see cynics in this "innocent" thread about carts?  Damn near every post you write condemns riding in some way.  Either you got bumped in the head by a brick today, or this thread has a (not so hidden) motive that will lead it down a ditch. 

You have made it plainly clear you have no desire to either ride a cart or even visit the US to play golf.  Don't start the pity party, it's BS and everyone knows it. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Clearly revenue is not an issue so can you name a list of private clubs in the US that advocate riding over walking. Perhaps you may also be able to offer an explanation as to why they are pro carts.

Melvyn

I think your premise is off due to:

1. Revenue matters.

2. "Advocate" is a pretty strong word and there are obviously degrees of advocation that varies from club to club.

http://www.minisceongogolfclub.com/golf/guest-information/

For example, and to answer your question with the faulty premise   , here is a management company that has a variety of cart policies. Click on each logo and you can see what they are and how they vary from club to club. My favorite is:

Walking Policy
Walking is permitted during times designated by the golf shop. Walking is always permitted.

Obviously we are a little confused over here Mel.

[Mike Sweeney]

Sorry, here is the link:

http://www.minisceongogolfclub.com/golf/guest-information/

[Jim_Coleman]

    This is obviously not scientific, but rather my observations from playing private clubs for 50 or so years.  If anything, I think I'm high on walking opportunities,

       Clubs that are walking only  -  5%
       Clubs that are cart only  -  55% (probably higher in the south)
       Clubs that offer both  -  40% (maybe lower in the northeast, but I think not)

     As for the clubs that offer both, I'd say neither is promoted.  Players are free to walk or ride, although neither is free.  I'll say one thing, though.  It's much more common for a club offering both to run out of caddies rather than carts.
     I'd also say that if you limited your sample to top 200 courses, there'd be a far greater opportunity to walk.

[Mark Saltzman]

Many private clubs in Florida are carts only.

[Michael George]

Most top 100 obviously offer caddies.  One reason for this is that the Golf Digest and Golf Magazine rankings consider whether you can walk the golf course.  Accordingly, most courses that were not big on caddies have become so in order to improve their rankings.

On the private course side, there are 2 top 100 that I can think of that are not big on caddies (if they offer caddies at all).  1 is Pete Dye GC in West Virginia.  I did not see any caddie shack and was never offered a caddie when I played there.  2 is Double Eagle in Columbus, Ohio.  Both would be very difficult to walk and were not designed for walking.  

[Lloyd_Cole]

Melvyn,

You have indeed outdone yourself here. You are ignorant and self righteous. Quite the combo!
The opening assertion is false, therefore the discussion is pointless.
Do us all a favour and delete the post and start again without the economic falsehood and maybe we can have a discussion.

[Andy Stamm]

The club where I worked had carts, walking, and caddies. I never thought of pull carts; they weren't popular at that time. I assumed they were allowed, but maybe not. There was no time restriction on use, but a weekday caddie would need to be arranged ahead of time (safer to do it on a weekend as well). I wouldn't say anything was "promoted" although the pro shop clearly wanted everyone in carts, but that was a money thing for them. Members were going to do what they wanted, whatever the pro shop wanted. Carts were predominant, probably 90% or more. I don't know about the pro shop, but in the bag room we loaded everyone onto a cart, unless instructed otherwise. Of course, we recognized the very few adamant walkers and didn't load them. Sorry, Melvyn I'd rather not give the name but it was a good, old, prestigious club in the area, although not nationally or internationally renowned. Hope that helps!

And for the record, I'd like to know the rules for walkers as I am curious and learning about the subject (I assumed usually it was like this club, obviously not), and it wouldn't greatly influence any decision to play at a club or join.

[Mark Pearce]

Melvyn,

You have indeed outdone yourself here. You are ignorant and self righteous. Quite the combo!
The opening assertion is false, therefore the discussion is pointless.
Do us all a favour and delete the post and start again without the economic falsehood and maybe we can have a discussion.

Lloyd,

As Melvyn has explained he knows he is ignorant as to the US private club structure.  That isn't a sin.  As you might remember most golfers on this side of the Atlantic have little clue as to how private clubs in the US.  I don't and unlike Melvyn I have played at a few.  I'd certainly like to understand why revenue matters so much at these and whether that is the case at the traditional and long established private clubs as well as at the newer ones.  Whilst I'm as tired as anybody of Melvyn's constant tirades against carts and riding the question he asks here is of interest to others (myself included) and it wouldn't harm anyone to answer the question rather than turn this thread into a flame war.  If his opening assertion is wrong, please explain why rather than sinking to the level others frequently do.

Mark

[Lloyd_Cole]

Melvyn,

You have indeed outdone yourself here. You are ignorant and self righteous. Quite the combo!
The opening assertion is false, therefore the discussion is pointless.
Do us all a favour and delete the post and start again without the economic falsehood and maybe we can have a discussion.

Lloyd,

As Melvyn has explained he knows he is ignorant as to the US private club structure.  That isn't a sin.  As you might remember most golfers on this side of the Atlantic have little clue as to how private clubs in the US.  I don't and unlike Melvyn I have played at a few.  I'd certainly like to understand why revenue matters so much at these and whether that is the case at the traditional and long established private clubs as well as at the newer ones.  Whilst I'm as tired as anybody of Melvyn's constant tirades against carts and riding the question he asks here is of interest to others (myself included) and it wouldn't harm anyone to answer the question rather than turn this thread into a flame war.  If his opening assertion is wrong, please explain why rather than sinking to the level others frequently do.

Mark

So his initial assertion was sarcasm? Sarcasm and ignorance are not the greatest combo, either.
If we want a productive discussion it needs to be framed properly.
I am happy to contribute as my course absolutely relies on cart income, and has some infuriating quirky rules. But I will not comment further here.

[JMEvensky]

I think the distinction needs to be made between member-owned clubs and others.They each need the revenue but there might be differences in the way they go about getting it.

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