[Mark Saltzman]

I played here a half dozen times and it will never crack my top 500 courses played, but I always had fun. As Mark said, a few of the holes were total head scratchers, but all in all, it is a good ego boost course.

Jim,

You must have a heck of a resume!  It's in my top 500 for sure.

[Mark Saltzman]

Up next, Teton Pines Country Club




Course History - Taken without permission from http://www.tetonpines.com/club/scripts/library/view_document.asp?GRP=14992&NS=PG&APP=80&DN=GHISTORY

Since opening in 1987 as the “3rd Best New Golf Resort in the Country” (Golf Digest), Teton Pines has not rested on its laurels.  Arnold Palmer and Ed Seay beautifully transformed ranch land into a premier mountain golf destination.

Since then, Teton Pines has continued upward and has routinely received accolades from Golf Digest, Golf Magazine, Zagat Guide, Tennis Magazine, Audubon International and Conde Nast Traveler. 

In 1996, Teton Pines hosted the American Junior Golf Association’s annual Canon Cup – a Ryder Cup-like competition featuring the 20 best juniors from the East versus the 20 best juniors from the West.  The Rocky Mountain Section PGA has conducted its section championship at Teton Pines numerous times.

Today, under the direction of Mike Kitchen, G.C.S.A.A., the course is in the finest condition.  Course assessment, careful planning and constant improvements are made annually to ensure the owners, members and guests have exceptional playing conditions.


Scorecard Information




Routing




General Impressions

1) OK, this isn't GCA related, but the people at the club are among the friendliest I have ever met.  I had long and very enjoyable conversations with the assistant pro, front secretary and starter.  Members I played with were also first class.

2) Greens were very interesting, certainly the best part of the golf course.  Not sure if this is a common trait of Palmer/Seay designs, but I thought they were very good.

3) Very solid set of golf holes.  There aren't any headscratchers out there.

4) P3s are very difficult, very pretty, though perhaps a bit repetitive.

5) P4s are very strong with lots of variety.

6) P5s also are quite strong.  10 is a very good r/r hole.

7) Very walkable

CJ, if you read this, please assist me with a few more points!

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 1: Par 4, 444 Yards

Solid opening hole.  Hidden bunker to the right off the tee - challenge it for the shortest approach and best angle.  The green is both undulating and generally sloping back to front - lots of fun.  This green lets you know that you're going to enjoy your round.












Hole 2: Par 5, 609 Yards

Perhaps the worst hole on the course.  Long and very straight.  The straightness of the hole makes it feel narrower than it is - there is a fair amount of room to miss left and right.  The second shot is very forgettable.  Nothing to think about - just try for long and straight there.  Approach is to a two-tiered green that is open in front and bunkered on three sides.













Hole 3: Par 3, 204 Yards

Tough hole.  Long with water right, though there is more room to miss than it appears from the tee.  The green is phenomenal, with more sections than can be counted. 

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 4: Par 4, 408 Yards

The first of 3 P4s that play between 405 and 425 yards, but because each plays in a different condition and it is generally quite windy, each feels very different.

Dogleg left P4 that is narrowed in the DZ by flanking bunkers.  Long hitters can carry the left bunker but should be careful as a pushed tee shot will run through the fairway into the water.




Greenside bunkering is repetitive.  Bunkers on 3 sides, but at least the green is open in front.  Another very undulating green.










Hole 5: Par 4, 423 Yards

A very typical hole with a phenomenal green.  Tee shot is straightaway with bunkers guarding the preferred side of the hole.






The green is huge, probably 50 yards deep with a large swale in the middle.  Front pins are simple, back pins are really hard.  Just over the swale, the green slopes toward the back making it really hard to get a ball to stop on the back shelf.  There is also a really good tucked back-left pin position.








Hole 6: Par 4, 406 Yards

Another simple hole with a great green.  Tee shot is plenty wide with bunkers flanking the sides of the fairway.  Approach is to a green guarded by water short-left.








Even with the flattening effect of the camera, the massive undulations on this green are obvious. Fun!

[Chris Johnston]

Salz  - Teton Pines is a very fun "parkland" course with tons of water.  It is also the most vibrant club and the most healthy club in Jackson Hole.  Most holes have a challenge for the average golfer.  It has aged well with lush trees now mature.  Mike Kitchen is the Super and he is the best, aside from the fact he's a Sparty.

The golf market in Jackson Hole is saturated with 7 good courses, counting Idaho.  I would guess there are, maybe, 250 "avid" golfers who live here and they are aging fast.  Maybe 250... 

The Snake River Sporting Club was world class, is now closed.  Round here, the math is a challenge.

[Jim Franklin]

I played here a half dozen times and it will never crack my top 500 courses played, but I always had fun. As Mark said, a few of the holes were total head scratchers, but all in all, it is a good ego boost course.

Jim,

You must have a heck of a resume!  It's in my top 500 for sure.

I have played some good ones for sure. It may make the Top 400. No matter, it was a fun course to play and the views were awesome. I need to get back out west. My sister lives in Driggs so maybe next summer. Winter...not so much.

[Michael George]

When I come back in life, I want to be Jim Franklin - minus the ugly orange Miami golf shoes and the "grumpy" disposition (LOL).

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 7: Par 5, 634 Yards

Bunkers guard the right side on both the DZ and the layup area.  At well over 600 yards, the key to the first two shots is to keep the ball in decent position so that you can get a full 3W into decent position for your third.






The approach to the green is to a very large crescent shaped green with the left half jutting out into the water.










Hole 8: Par 3, 181 Yards

Very tough hole playing into the prevailing wind.  Finding the green is only the first part of the puzzle as this is the most undulating green at TP.  There are humps and bumps all over the place and a steep shelf to get to a back-left pin.










Hole 9: Par 4, 437 Yards

One of the two most difficult holes on the course.  The tee shot is narrowed by a large, deep bunker on the right, though again, there is more room to miss than it appears.  The approach is to a green completely surrounded by bunkers and with a long-iron in hand it is very difficult.  The green is one of the tamer on the course, sloping from back to front.

[Sean Leary]

I played this a couple of years ago and can't remember any of the holes very well, even after seeing these pics. Getting old.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 10: Par 5, 572 Yards

Even though this hole plays 572 yards on the card, it will be reachable in two for me (especially if not playing the tips). Off the tee, one has to choose has tight they want to play it to the right trees.  The more cut-off, the shorter the approach in.




If laying up the second is simple with plenty of width.  If going for it, one must clear a small stream.  The green is not angled to accept shots from where players will be going for it in two from.




After a successful layup, a simple third.  The green expands significantly behind the front portion of the green.




Hole 11: Par 4, 412 Yards

Tee shot must avoid a series of bunkers on the right.






Yet another awesome green at TP.  There are several tiers on this green and a really fun backstop.







Hole 12: Par 3, 221 Yards

Almost a carbon copy of the P3 8th, but this one plays 40 yards longer.  This is a really difficult hole, all carry over water, playing into the prevailing wind.  There is a very significant bowl in the front portion of the green, somewhat reminiscent of the 13th at Ross' Oakland Hills South.  There is some room long in the form of a fairway cut collection area for those not wanting to flirt with the water.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 13: Par 4, 463 Yards















Hole 14: Par 5, 528 Yards

A very good short P5.  The tee shot must deal with staggered bunkers.  Layup short of all of them if not going to go for the green for two, or try to thread the needle with driver.




The layup area is devoid of trouble.  Plenty of width but keep it in the fairway.  The bunkering around the green is extensive.  In particular, one bunker 40 yards short of the green will cause trouble for those going for the green in two.








Yet another good green, with a great Sunday pin position back left up a tier.







Hole 15: Par 4, 443 Yards

Easily the most difficult hole on the golf course.  The tee shot is narrow to a fairway that slopes back toward the tee and is protected by trees left and bunkers right.  Tee shots not in the fairway will likely force the player to layup.




The approach is to a green protected by water with zero room to miss. Short, left and right are all dead.






The green is very good again (sounds like a record, I know!).  The slope is severely back-to-front so the green will accept shots from long irons, but it makes front pins really impossible with the water short.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 16: Par 3, 202 Yards











Hole 17: Par 4, 333 Yards










Hole 18: Par 4, 472 Yards

[Mark Saltzman]

Next, Huntsman Springs Golf Club, located just over the mountains from Jackson, WY in Driggs, ID.





Background Information - Taken from http://www.huntsmansprings.com/golf

Huntsman Springs gives you the opportunity to immerse yourself in the smell of fresh cut grass, and the feel of the eager turf beneath your feet at one the nation’s top golf courses. Boasting a world class course designed by the acclaimed golf architect David McLay Kidd, winner of GOLF Magazine’s 2008 “Architect of the Year” and who calls Huntsman Springs “my greatest golf architectural achievement.” Huntsman Springs delivers not just an extraordinary golf course ranked one of the top in the nation, it also offers a true experience.

With the stunning Teton Mountains as a backdrop, Huntsman Springs blends seamlessly into its native lands with the graceful contours, fishable ponds, aspen trees, willow and Irish Links fescue. Players have a sense of vast open spaces with views in every direction. Playing the course reflects the impeccable quality of the design and construction with fairways that average 80 yards wide, greens that average 10,000 sq. ft., 153 bunkers and 450,000 cubic yards of sand to maintain contour and promote drainage. Huntsman Springs provides championship conditions throughout the season.

The course isn’t your average game of golf, it’s an experience. Built with replay value in mind, this course lends golfers an array of options and strategies to get the most of their game, including split fairways and a multitude of bunkers. Huntsman Springs is an avaricious course, and could take a lifetime before it gives up all of its secrets.


Accolades

- Golfweek Top 100 Modern (no. 29)
- Golf Mag Best New Private
- Golfweek Top Residential Courses


Routing




Scorecard Information





General Impressions

1) Tremendous variety in P4s.

2) Lack of variety in P3s.  Too many played to similar yardages with a wide green over water.

3) Lots of width.  Having only played the course once it was difficult to tell how effective the width was.  On most tees. for me, although there were many potential options, there was only one that made sense for me.  I think that in a different winds, other options would be open to me.  Still, there were a few instances where I felt that Kidd used width, because the best modern courses use width.

4) Really fun set of greens.  Many are absolutely massive with huge undulations.  Some greens use tilt/slope, others use ridges, others humps.  Really good variety.  So many potential pin positions and so many ways to play each shot make local knowledge (or a good caddie) really important.

5) The course is a tough walk.  It is flat enough, but there are some very long green to tee transitions.  I asked the pro if he minded walking, he said he didn't mind.  On the second hole I asked how often people walk the course.  He said about 1 group a month.  I guess long transitions are irrelevant if your members want to take carts... or I guess maybe the members take carts because of the long walks....?

6) I felt that the flatness of the property combined with the split fairways and multitude of fairway bunkers made me feel very uncomfortable and confused on the tee.  As the photos will show, there is very little to assist with depth perception and as such choosing a line is difficult.  Again, a good caddie is helpful here.

Photos will begin tomorrow.

[Mark Saltzman]

All yardages and photos will be taken from the 2nd to back II tees.


Hole 1: Par 4, 399 Yards

A very difficult starting hole.  I was told that the normal wind is straight into your face one 1, though sometimes it plays straight downwind.  Rarely is it a cross-wind.  In fact, the difficulty of the first hole at HS has led to some discussion about switching the nines so that 1 is the 10th.

This hole is a good example of what I was talking about when I said visual confusion off the tee.  It is very difficult to tell how far any of the bunkers are without a caddie.  For reference, the bunkers on the right start at about 200 to carry and get longer.  The bunker on the left is about 240 to reach.

Depending on wind/ability, ideally a player will challenge the left for a left pin and the right for a right pin.





A tee shot straight up the middle leaves an intimidating approach over a series of fairway bunkers that should not really be in play.  Very little of the green's surface is in view, though what can be seen looks awfully undulating.




Upon arriving at the green the player sees the type of difficult green he will grow to expect at HS.  There is a false-front both left and right of the greenside bunker.  A large run-off to the right. And an awesome back-left pin position that I have no idea how you get to on the first hole of the day.







Hole 2: Par 4, 383 Yards

No photo of the tee shot.  There is a diagonal water hazard that crosses the fairway at about 170 yards at its shortest point to about 240 yards at its longest.  The carry is about 200 yards to 260 yards, depending on the line taken (right is shortest).

After a tee shot across the hazard, the player is confronted with an approach over the same stream that he just crossed which managed to snake its way in front of the green.




The second green is perhaps the tamest at HS with more tilt (back-to-front and left-to--right) than undulation






Hole 3: Par 4, 330 Yards

Wow, talk about width.  There was no way to capture the entirety of the fairway in a single picture.  One can almost eliminate the forced carry by playing well left.  Most players will play between the collection of fairway bunkers that look like they are on the right but are actually centreline bunkers, and the bunkers left.  There is also plenty of fairway right of the bunkers, though I am not sure any player will ever play to this portion of the fairway on purpose.  I couldn't make any sense of it.






From just left of the centreline bunkers the player is confronted with an approach to a very shallow green with no room to miss short and a back-stop long.




Getting closer to the green one sees that there was actually some brush cleared and a bit of room short.  Good example of playing easier than it looks.






A look at the multi-tiered green from the top level.  Don't want to be here to a pin on a lower tier.  Some of the backstop is also visible on the left side of the picture.





From behind the 'expanding' nature of the green is obvious, though not knowable from the fairway.  Though a back-left pin will be more visually intimidating from the fairway, it is clearly the easiest pin on the green.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 4: Par 5, 552 Yards

A fairly difficult par-5 that has been made easier recently as a result of changes that both DMK and management felt were very necessary.

The tee shot is to a diagonal fairway protected both by fairway bunkers and hazard short and fairway bunkers through the fairway.  Playing left of all of the bunkers is a reasonable choice as this is a 3-shot hole for most anyway.  Really long hitters can aim over the farthest right bunker.  Everyone else will have to gague both their risk tolerance and swing of the day and decide on their line somewhere between conservative and ultra risky.




A tee shot laid-up left has an ideal angle for the second shot.  This shot must be well hit though, as there is trouble both left and right and a hidden creek running across the fairway.




From 250 yards out. Go for it or lay it up left?  Ahhh, just go for it!




Clearing the entire area shown on the right was a recent change by DMK.  Before it was all tall grass (lost ball) and too many fairly good shots were being lost.  IMO a good change.

The view from 75 yards out.  Still not easy from here as the green is very narrow even from the ideal angle.




Coming up just short leaves this view:




Fairly tame green.  Undulating in the front section, mostly flat in back.




The green extends in depth a fair bit more than is obvious from the fairway.





Hole 5: Par 3, 187 Yards - Photo taken from 132 yards.

Bit of a story on this one.  The short version is the normal back two sets of tees (about 190 and 210) play from much farther left than where this picture is taken.  From there, you are playing straight up the green and not at an angle to it.  The hole often plays into the wind.  So you're hitting hybrid+ into the green, and the green is shaped such that shots that land short are killed by a false-front and come up short.  If you carry to the right but are right you find the bunker if you're lucky, and if you're not you kick into the hazard.  The green also repels shots on the left.  Lastly, the green slopes away from the tee so even if you manage to carry the ball onto the green, it may very well roll to the back and getting even close to a front pin is impossible. Soooo, DMK came in a built a tamer new green.  The hole will use the old tees but play about 25 yards shorter.


Tee shot from III tees to old green.




Old green:




New green is almost ready for play:

[Jason Topp]

Mark:

Thanks for posting this tour. 

While I realize it is dangerous to form opinions from pictures, this looks like a very average course in a wonderful setting.  Do you agree with that viewpoint?  If not, what sets it apart?

Jason,

I agree completely.  A perfect definition of a Doak 4.

I could find very little info on Jackson, WY golf using the search function and since I played everything in the area I figured I would post about all of the courses for people to use a future reference.

Hunstman Springs and Shooting Star should attract more interest.

Mark - I am pleased you have posted the tour as I use this site as my first source for all golf travel research.  Thanks for doing this.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 6: Par 4, 369 Yards

This is sorta a split fairway.  I say sorta because 99% of players will have no option but to play up the left side. It is about a 265 yard carry to reach the fairway on the right, and given how small a target it is, I don't think anyone would ever try it unless they could actually drive the green.




The left fairway has a bunker that is 200 yards to carry (the one on the left), beyond which there is a ton of fairway.  It's about 270 yards to the far bunker, though this is very difficult to judge. View of the left fairway:




View of the right fairway:




Approach to a well-protected very cool green:




The green is huge with so many humps and bumps and possible pin positions.  The easiest pin is actually front-left where the green forms a bowl, though this position is protected by two bunkers.

From right:




From behind:




From left:

[Andy Troeger]

Mark,
Thanks for posting these. Huntsman looks pretty interesting actually...there's certainly a lot going on pretty much every hole. Hopefully I'll get to see it next time I'm up that way.

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,
Thanks for posting these. Huntsman looks pretty interesting actually...there's certainly a lot going on pretty much every hole. Hopefully I'll get to see it next time I'm up that way.

Andy,

Surprised to hear you say that cause the more I see of Huntsman, the more it looks Wine Valley'ish in some ways...

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,
Thanks for posting these. Huntsman looks pretty interesting actually...there's certainly a lot going on pretty much every hole. Hopefully I'll get to see it next time I'm up that way.

Andy,

Surprised to hear you say that cause the more I see of Huntsman, the more it looks Wine Valley'ish in some ways...

Andy,

No problem.  HS is certainly worth seeing.

Kalen,

While playing Huntsman, WV never really crossed my mind.  Curious in what way you think they look similar?

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 7: Par 4, 412 Yards

Not my favorite hole because of the forced layup.  The line off the tee is actually a little farther right than you think, just right of the left fairway bunker.  It is about 250 yards to the end of the fairway, but because of the downhill nature of the fairway, one must lay back farther to allow for roll.  As a result, even good tee shots will have at least 170 yards to the uphill greens.  Many will have more than 185 into the green.




The approach is straightforward with scary bunkering left and loads of room the right.




A large ridge separates the front of the green from the back.







Hole 8: Par 3, 159 Yards

On its own a strong P3, though probably too similar to the upcoming 11th and 17th holes.  With a back tee in the 230 yard neighborhood, this hole can get downright scary.

Again there are many tiers to this green and local knowledge very much in play to get to the different pins.

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

Outside of the water......which is only evident on a few holes at WV.

1)  The hairy deep bunkers
2)  The rolly polly up and down nature of the holes
3)  The long views
4)   The undulating greens
5)   Prarie-style type golf in general.

[Andy Troeger]

Kalen,
I don't see much similarity in photos--other than big wide open spaces.  Huntsman looks much more defined--even if there are multiple areas and options there are things that separate them. I don't see that at Wine Valley. That's also a first glance reaction.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,
I don't see much similarity in photos--other than big wide open spaces.  Huntsman looks much more defined--even if there are multiple areas and options there are things that separate them. I don't see that at Wine Valley. That's also a first glance reaction.

Its all good Andy,

I don't think many would think WV is less defined though...if anything, it would seem Hunstman has more routes off the tee and is less obvious where one needs to play to get to the green.  Other than Wild Horse this course looks the most similar in pictures so thought I would just add to the discussion. 

I guess when i see something like this at huntsman..



It looks similar to this...




or this...



To this..

[Andy Troeger]

I kind of get the idea at Huntsman that there is a "best" way to play each hole--it just might take a few tries to figure it out for each player based on their game. I don't see the comparison with Wild Horse--Hunstman has a water hazard of some sort on just about every hole from what I can see. Huntsman strikes me as at least looking quite a bit more difficult than either one, especially for the wayward golfer. I don't see a lot of similarity in look, however, to anything else I've seen in this case. I don't normally say that.

Plus Hunstman is 10 miles from my friends' grandparents' ranch, so I've driven by it and am likely to be back up there, so that adds to the intrigue. There aren't that many good courses that I've driven by and not stopped!

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