[Roger Wolfe]

One bucket of money... members fighting over who has to put more in the bucket... an issue that is pointless to argue.

If your cart revenue is more than your cart expenses (lease, maintenance)... even if you put in EVERYTHING (e.g cart barn depreciation)... than the riders are subsidizing the walkers.  This is the case in 99% of the clubs in America.

I have tried for years to get my Board to eliminate our cart fee and make all golf for all members free whether they walk or ride.
You take your cart revenue... divide by the number of members... raise the dues accordingly ($30 a month at my club).  No restrictions... no rules.  if your back is hurting you ride for free without financial penalty... if you play 9 holes and feel better... turn in the cart and walk the back nine.  Unleash the pros stuck behind the counter administering cart fees and free them up to work the range or interact with the members.  For those more financially oriented... lay off your assistant pro because the shop work has just been reduced to phone calls, guests and merchandise.

Only the most elite clubs can exist without golf carts.  The entire industry needs to wake up and realize they are an operating expense... not a source of revenue. 

[Carl Nichols]

One bucket of money... members fighting over who has to put more in the bucket... an issue that is pointless to argue.

If your cart revenue is more than your cart expenses (lease, maintenance)... even if you put in EVERYTHING (e.g cart barn depreciation)... than the riders are subsidizing the walkers.  This is the case in 99% of the clubs in America.

I have tried for years to get my Board to eliminate our cart fee and make all golf for all members free whether they walk or ride.
You take your cart revenue... divide by the number of members... raise the dues accordingly ($30 a month at my club).  No restrictions... no rules.  if your back is hurting you ride for free without financial penalty... if you play 9 holes and feel better... turn in the cart and walk the back nine.  Unleash the pros stuck behind the counter administering cart fees and free them up to work the range or interact with the members.  For those more financially oriented... lay off your assistant pro because the shop work has just been reduced to phone calls, guests and merchandise.

Only the most elite clubs can exist without golf carts.  The entire industry needs to wake up and realize they are an operating expense... not a source of revenue. 

Do you think that approach would result in more cart use? 

[BCowan]

One bucket of money... members fighting over who has to put more in the bucket... an issue that is pointless to argue.
Not really pointless, you might want to figure out why young folk aren't joining clubs.
If your cart revenue is more than your cart expenses (lease, maintenance)... even if you put in EVERYTHING (e.g cart barn depreciation)... than the riders are subsidizing the walkers.  This is the case in 99% of the clubs in America.
So justifying over priced cart fees, you are blaming walkers (who are better for the course from a maint. standpoint).  You can't just lower the cart fees?
I have tried for years to get my Board to eliminate our cart fee and make all golf for all members free whether they walk or ride.
You take your cart revenue... divide by the number of members... raise the dues accordingly ($30 a month at my club). 50 members of my club and my parents would leave just out the idiocy of that collectivist ideology.  Hopefully your club has enough sense not to listen your viewpoints.

 No restrictions... no rules.  if your back is hurting you ride for free without financial penalty... if you play 9 holes and feel better... turn in the cart and walk the back nine.  Unleash the pros stuck behind the counter administering cart fees and free them up to work the range or interact with the members. That is why there is shop girl.  Also that is one of the job requirements for having asst pro's, oh my having them actually work for a living.  

 For those more financially oriented... lay off your assistant pro because the shop work has just been reduced to phone calls, guests and merchandise.I have many friends who were asst pros and now are HP's.  With online tee times, you gotta have something for an asst pro to do.  Merchandise is generally handled with shop girl.  The problem is all these stupid club tourney's that have been added in the last 20 years in order to attract members and keep members.  Core members hate them and they require larger staffs to run them.

Only the most elite clubs can exist without golf carts.  The entire industry needs to wake up and realize they are an operating expense... not a source of revenue.  Yes, the industry needs to wake up and use transparent means of monthly dues covering everything.  No range fee, locker fee, food fee, this fee.  Monthly price with no BS.  Pay for your own Buggy.  Have a senior rate of $10, since they are more likely the ones to need them.

[Brent Hutto]

So which are you advocating here? Is it the "monthly price with no BS" or is it "pay for your own buggy"? That's two opposite things.

P.S. Referring to "collectivist ideology" sounds doofy even when the estimable Lou Duran does it. And you're no Lou Duran. Sounds like something you picked up from listening to Fox News.

[BCowan]

So which are you advocating here? Is it the "monthly price with no BS" or is it "pay for your own buggy"? That's two opposite things.

Monthly membership fees that include everything except buggies.  Pay as you go buggies, with Senior rates buggy fees.  They need them to play and they have most likely been a member for a long time.  

''Referring to "collectivist ideology" sounds doofy even when the estimable Lou Duran does it. And you're no Lou Duran. Sounds like something you picked up from listening to Fox News.''

   I don't listen to fox news, nor do I agree with many of Lou's posts.  It is spot on. 

[Carl Nichols]

So which are you advocating here? Is it the "monthly price with no BS" or is it "pay for your own buggy"? That's two opposite things.

Monthly membership fees that include everything except buggies.  Pay as you go buggies, with Senior rates buggy fees.  They need them to play and they have most likely been a member for a long time.  

''Referring to "collectivist ideology" sounds doofy even when the estimable Lou Duran does it. And you're no Lou Duran. Sounds like something you picked up from listening to Fox News.''

   I don't listen to fox news, nor do I agree with many of Lou's posts.  It is spot on. 

Walking fee or no walking fee on weekend mornings?

[Brent Hutto]

Ah, so you're in favor of an all-inclusive membership fee that covers all the stuff YOU use but since you don't use carts they ought to be paid for separately. That's a very mainstream American attitude and also consistent with most of the country-club members I've met.

Like those 70 year old guys who are happy to lap up every drop of Medicare-paid health care they can get but work themselves into a righteous fury over the idea of the government paying for any healthcare for those lazy poor people who don't have jobs with employer-paid insurance.

[ChipRoyce]

BCowan;

if you don't put a fee on the carts, then you will get excess usage by folks who don't conserve them. If that's optimal, then as you say, build it into the price of the membership. The folks who walk will be subsidizing the cart riders, but oh well. Your club will have a lot of capital tied up in carts.

Personally, I think walking / pushcarts should be free. Member required to have a cart at or above a given standard (for those who care about appearances).

Those that ride, charge them the real cost of owning(or leasing) and operating the carts for the club based on past experience.  Our club has a flat per month charge in addition to dues that is a steal (about the cost of 6.5 cart fees, great for folks who play 2X or more a week).

I've continually expressed my opinion that everything in the club should either be self-sustaining or clearly subsidized from general dues (subject to proper governance from the board with substantial input from members). The idea that golf carts subsidize some other operation of a club is crazy. I'm also not a fan of a club operating a ritzy restaurant that only a small % of the members actually use. That kind of thinking will run a clubs' finance into the ground.

[BCowan]

Ah, so you're in favor of an all-inclusive membership fee that covers all the stuff YOU use but since you don't use carts they ought to be paid for separately. That's a very mainstream American attitude and also consistent with most of the country-club members I've met.
Both the club i grew up at and the one I play at have no food min.  So your whole argument is a laugh.  The club I play at now includes the range in the membership this year, and the price didn't go up, gasp.  I am nothing like anyone you met.  Those other fees such as locker aren't optional at many clubs.  It is a phony way to have lower dues price, and then mandatory fees which many clubs have for locker and range and food min. 
Like those 70 year old guys who are happy to lap up every drop of Medicare-paid health care they can get but work themselves into a righteous fury over the idea of the government paying for any healthcare for those lazy poor people who don't have jobs with employer-paid insurance.Yeah, Medicare is so efficient.   

[Brent Hutto]

Chip,

Roger speaks from years of hands-on experience when he says the cart fees more than cover the actual costs (direct and indirect) of making the carts available. So I'm inclined to accept his statement at face value, given that he speaks from knowledge rather than supposition.

Setting a fee, whether zero or some non-zero number, for any optional product or service always serves two purposes. It affect the revenue that is generated and it affects the behavior of those who are deciding whether to use it or not. As such, setting the cart fee at a private club has implications in both areas.

There is no question in my mind that a cart fee of zero will result in more carts being used than a cart fee of $50 per round. The effect on revenue is harder to determine because it's difficult to account for how many members a club would gain or lose by any particular change in what the club charges for a cart.

So it is ultimately either a political (for member-governed clubs) or marketing (for non-member-owned clubs) issue. The club has to decide what level of cart usage it desires and find a cart fee that produces that level of demand. Like all political questions, it does not have a clear-cut or absolute answer. Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what particular solution is chosen.

[Brent Hutto]

Ah, so you're in favor of an all-inclusive membership fee that covers all the stuff YOU use but since you don't use carts they ought to be paid for separately. That's a very mainstream American attitude and also consistent with most of the country-club members I've met.
Both the club i grew up at and the one I play at have no food min.  So your whole argument is a laugh.  The club I play at now includes the range in the membership this year, and the price didn't go up, gasp.  I am nothing like anyone you met.  Those other fees such as locker aren't optional at many clubs.  It is a phony way to have lower dues price, and then mandatory fees which many clubs have for locker and range and food min. 
Like those 70 year old guys who are happy to lap up every drop of Medicare-paid health care they can get but work themselves into a righteous fury over the idea of the government paying for any healthcare for those lazy poor people who don't have jobs with employer-paid insurance.Yeah, Medicare is so efficient.   

Believe it or not, there are clubs that require every round to use a cart and then they bill the member a cart fee.

Even harder to believe, there are clubs that require all rounds (or rounds at prime times and seasons) to use caddies and then the member has to pay the caddie.

By your reasoning, they ought to just bundle those non-optional cart or caddie fees into the dues, no?

[ChipRoyce]

Chip,

Roger speaks from years of hands-on experience when he says the cart fees more than cover the actual costs (direct and indirect) of making the carts available. So I'm inclined to accept his statement at face value, given that he speaks from knowledge rather than supposition.

Setting a fee, whether zero or some non-zero number, for any optional product or service always serves two purposes. It affect the revenue that is generated and it affects the behavior of those who are deciding whether to use it or not. As such, setting the cart fee at a private club has implications in both areas.

There is no question in my mind that a cart fee of zero will result in more carts being used than a cart fee of $50 per round. The effect on revenue is harder to determine because it's difficult to account for how many members a club would gain or lose by any particular change in what the club charges for a cart.

So it is ultimately either a political (for member-governed clubs) or marketing (for non-member-owned clubs) issue. The club has to decide what level of cart usage it desires and find a cart fee that produces that level of demand. Like all political questions, it does not have a clear-cut or absolute answer. Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what particular solution is chosen.

I think I said basically the same thing?

[JMEvensky]

Chip,

Roger speaks from years of hands-on experience when he says the cart fees more than cover the actual costs (direct and indirect) of making the carts available. So I'm inclined to accept his statement at face value, given that he speaks from knowledge rather than supposition.

Setting a fee, whether zero or some non-zero number, for any optional product or service always serves two purposes. It affect the revenue that is generated and it affects the behavior of those who are deciding whether to use it or not. As such, setting the cart fee at a private club has implications in both areas.

There is no question in my mind that a cart fee of zero will result in more carts being used than a cart fee of $50 per round. The effect on revenue is harder to determine because it's difficult to account for how many members a club would gain or lose by any particular change in what the club charges for a cart.

So it is ultimately either a political (for member-governed clubs) or marketing (for non-member-owned clubs) issue. The club has to decide what level of cart usage it desires and find a cart fee that produces that level of demand. Like all political questions, it does not have a clear-cut or absolute answer. Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what particular solution is chosen.

+1 on Roger's opinions. Any club would love to have a GM who understands the golf finance side as well as he. He knows whereof he speaks.

As to rolling cart fees into the dues,there are some other considerations.

There is the idea that,without any extra charge for a cart,members will be more inclined to come out late in the afternoon for a handful of holes.Then,maybe they stay for drinks and dinner and you catch some revenue you otherwise wouldn't.

Anything that makes it easier for members to use the club and play more golf would seem to be a good thing,IMO.

We looked at the idea several years ago and got scared by the wide disparity of rounds of golf throughout the membership. "Free carts" was a great deal for about 25% of the membership,not a big change for about 50% of the membership,but an extra ~ $1000/year for the bottom 25%. Nobody wanted to run the risk of having the bottom 25% walk out the door after realizing how few rounds they were playing.

[Brent Hutto]

Chip,

As I understood your comments, you're advocating for a constrained solution in which the total cost of providing carts is set equal to the total of cart fees billed. I would point out that your one particular solution may or may not actually provide the level of incentive or disincentive required to produce the club's desire amount of cart usage.

It would seem possible that the total cost of carts divided by a great many rounds of usage might work out so low that virtually everyone uses a cart for every round. That's all good if the books balance but if the club's culture/politics/preferences strongly favor walking golf then you've created an incentive pricing at odds with that walking emphasis.

Hence my suggestion that some effort be made account for the club's collective preference as to whether there are many, many carts on the course at all times versus mostly walkers with a few carts mixed in. The may be a local optimum solution to your book-balancing constraint that dictates purchasing a fleet of carts and then having everyone use the hell out of them to drive to the per-cart-round cost as low as possible. The logical extreme of such thinking is a "carts required" policy as we see at so many courses in my local area.

[ChipRoyce]

Chip,

As I understood your comments, you're advocating for a constrained solution in which the total cost of providing carts is set equal to the total of cart fees billed. I would point out that your one particular solution may or may not actually provide the level of incentive or disincentive required to produce the club's desire amount of cart usage.

It would seem possible that the total cost of carts divided by a great many rounds of usage might work out so low that virtually everyone uses a cart for every round. That's all good if the books balance but if the club's culture/politics/preferences strongly favor walking golf then you've created an incentive pricing at odds with that walking emphasis.

Hence my suggestion that some effort be made account for the club's collective preference as to whether there are many, many carts on the course at all times versus mostly walkers with a few carts mixed in. The may be a local optimum solution to your book-balancing constraint that dictates purchasing a fleet of carts and then having everyone use the hell out of them to drive to the per-cart-round cost as low as possible. The logical extreme of such thinking is a "carts required" policy as we see at so many courses in my local area.

I said that IF a club wanted to do so, it would allocate the cost to the entire membership on a pro-rata basis and be done with it. Personally, I don't think that would make sense as folks would over-use that resource and would create excess cost to the membership killing the experiment. Also, I agree with @JMEvensky's comment that this has the potential of chasing off the 25% who would end up subsidizing the other 75%.

To clarify what I would do if I owned a private club: I would make sure that the cart fee rate accurately reflected the actual cost of the cart experience. (Total expense related to carts / number of rounds) and charge that and only that to members. If its $10 per round per rider, that's what I'd charge. In this instance, if the cart actually cost $10, I wouldn't charge $20 and shift the $10 to some other cost center. That's when things start going wrong at Private clubs and start subsidies of inefficient amenties that causes problems in the long run.

For example, and back to the original reason for this thread: a subset of members of my Dad's club in the coastal Carolinas wanted to bring their own push carts. Note, this same group of folks had already started to walk the course so they no longer were using carts. After the shock and horror of something so base as pushcarts on a riding only club (no caddies either), the club then worried that there was a risk of losing cart fees from the tiny % of members who didn't already walk but also wanted push carts. Why were they worried? The cart amenity was a "revenue" generator (generated excess revenues to subsidize other operations). They eventually bought a number of decent (but not as good as Cliqgear) push carts and charge a rental of $9 per round to protect revenues (and chase those who would push away).

[BCowan]

BCowan;

if you don't put a fee on the carts, then you will get excess usage by folks who don't conserve them. If that's optimal, then as you say, build it into the price of the membership. The folks who walk will be subsidizing the cart riders, but oh well. Your club will have a lot of capital tied up in carts.I never said carts should be included, I am completely against that model, but I understand that in certain areas it working well, you wouldn't find me there .  I think clubs charging members for a locker, range, and Food min. is ridiculous.

Personally, I think walking / pushcarts should be free. Member required to have a cart at or above a given standard (for those who care about appearances). Why can't members rent trolleys or bring their own?  I don't think a club should have to provide free trolleys.

Those that ride, charge them the real cost of owning(or leasing) and operating the carts for the club based on past experience.  Our club has a flat per month charge in addition to dues that is a steal (about the cost of 6.5 cart fees, great for folks who play 2X or more a week). I'd be okay with that, but would encourage more cart use.  I don't want Seniors paying $20+ to use a cart, but i have no problem charging 30 year olds that fee, if we are talking about a course routed with walking being the intended use.  

I've continually expressed my opinion that everything in the club should either be self-sustaining or clearly subsidized from general dues (subject to proper governance from the board with substantial input from members). The idea that golf carts subsidize some other operation of a club is crazy. I'm also not a fan of a club operating a ritzy restaurant that only a small % of the members actually use. That kind of thinking will run a clubs' finance into the ground.I agree.

[BCowan]

Believe it or not, there are clubs that require every round to use a cart and then they bill the member a cart fee.I am aware of them.

Even harder to believe, there are clubs that require all rounds (or rounds at prime times and seasons) to use caddies and then the member has to pay the caddie.I know that too, I have caddied at those clubs and played as guests at those type of clubs.

By your reasoning, they ought to just bundle those non-optional cart or caddie fees into the dues, no?Idiotic, but not surprising.

[BCowan]

Chip,

Roger speaks from years of hands-on experience when he says the cart fees more than cover the actual costs (direct and indirect) of making the carts available. So I'm inclined to accept his statement at face value, given that he speaks from knowledge rather than supposition.

Setting a fee, whether zero or some non-zero number, for any optional product or service always serves two purposes. It affect the revenue that is generated and it affects the behavior of those who are deciding whether to use it or not. As such, setting the cart fee at a private club has implications in both areas.

There is no question in my mind that a cart fee of zero will result in more carts being used than a cart fee of $50 per round. The effect on revenue is harder to determine because it's difficult to account for how many members a club would gain or lose by any particular change in what the club charges for a cart.

So it is ultimately either a political (for member-governed clubs) or marketing (for non-member-owned clubs) issue. The club has to decide what level of cart usage it desires and find a cart fee that produces that level of demand. Like all political questions, it does not have a clear-cut or absolute answer. Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what particular solution is chosen.

+1 on Roger's opinions. Any club would love to have a GM who understands the golf finance side as well as he. He knows whereof he speaks.

As to rolling cart fees into the dues,there are some other considerations.

There is the idea that,without any extra charge for a cart,members will be more inclined to come out late in the afternoon for a handful of holes.Then,maybe they stay for drinks and dinner and you catch some revenue you otherwise wouldn't.
So they have to ride to come out at night?
Anything that makes it easier for members to use the club and play more golf would seem to be a good thing,IMO.
Always focusing on revenue
We looked at the idea several years ago and got scared by the wide disparity of rounds of golf throughout the membership. "Free carts" was a great deal for about 25% of the membership,not a big change for about 50% of the membership,but an extra ~ $1000/year for the bottom 25%. Nobody wanted to run the risk of having the bottom 25% walk out the door after realizing how few rounds they were playing.Yes, logical decision making

[mike_beene]

At ten dollars a round our club is making a fortune renting push carts.There can't be much maintenance in them.I have exactly the same push cart in my garage but can't use it at the club. I am glad we got the push carts but am starting to get irritated about the fee.I plan to carry my bag when it gets cooler( and when our course reopens) because 10 dollars a pop adds up over a year.

[BHoover]

At ten dollars a round our club is making a fortune renting push carts.There can't be much maintenance in them.I have exactly the same push cart in my garage but can't use it at the club. I am glad we got the push carts but am starting to get irritated about the fee.I plan to carry my bag when it gets cooler( and when our course reopens) because 10 dollars a pop adds up over a year.

It does seem like free money for a course. I know of few riders who would ditch their riding carts for pushcarts, but I know lots of walkers who would be willing to pay a relatively small fee to trade carrying for using a pushcart.

[Roger Wolfe]

We looked at the idea several years ago and got scared by the wide disparity of rounds of golf throughout the membership. "Free carts" was a great deal for about 25% of the membership,not a big change for about 50% of the membership,but an extra ~ $1000/year for the bottom 25%. Nobody wanted to run the risk of having the bottom 25% walk out the door after realizing how few rounds they were playing.

JM hit the nail on the head which is why an inclusive cart fee is such a tough policy to adopt.  

Let's switch from "riders subsidizing walkers" to "non-golfers subsidizing golfers."  Every successful club has about 25% of its membership who pay dues but play very rarely compared to the high volume players.  If you include the cart fee as a dues increase that might just be the last nail in the coffin that causes them to resign.  Every member who never plays is replaced by a member who plays ALL the time.  Great for revenue... bad for course wear and tear.  We do not have a revenue issue... we are concerned about accessibility and wear and tear issue (even at only 22k rounds per year).

As to the earlier question... would inclusive carts result in more cart usage?  According to the militant walkers in this thread the answer is "no" because they walk for the enjoyment of the game.  Do I believe that?  Hell no.

And... BCowan... I am not sure what club you belong to (or, as you phrased it, "play at") but it sounds like your owner/management/committee needs some work on the format/price/timing of your tournaments.  Club-wide tournaments are the heart and soul of every GOLF club.  We have guest-oriented events (member guest, British Open and Masters events)... we have serious golfer events (member member, club championship, match around).  They are all sold out and everyone loves them.

[BCowan]

''And... BCowan... I am not sure what club you belong to (or, as you phrased it, "play at") but it sounds like your owner/management/committee needs some work on the format/price/timing of your tournaments.  Club-wide tournaments are the heart and soul of every GOLF club.  We have guest-oriented events (member guest, British Open and Masters events)... we have serious golfer events (member member, club championship, match around).  They are all sold out and everyone loves them.''

   Oh really?  My club has a 4 year waiting list, so I don't think they have to do anything.  If you had any sense you would observe them as a case study.  Do you really think those hard core golfers would quit your club if their wasn't all those gatherings you have?  Just because they are sold out, doesn't mean you have a member that seldom plays and can't play his or her own course because of some club tourney.  Beware of the silent majority.  Our club has a member guest and club chump tourney.  All one needs. 

''Every successful club has about 25% of its membership who pay dues but play very rarely compared to the high volume players.  If you include the cart fee as a dues increase that might just be the last nail in the coffin that causes them to resign.  Every member who never plays is replaced by a member who plays ALL the time.  Great for revenue... bad for course wear and tear.  We do not have a revenue issue... we are concerned about accessibility and wear and tear issue (even at only 22k rounds per year).

There are less members of clubs now that play less than 10 times a year than there was 15 years ago in my opinion.  Many of those people quit post 08'.  You aren't describing a Golf Club, you are describing a Country Club.  The market is speaking and it is saying that there is too many Country clubs and not enough Golf Clubs, that focus on just Golf.  Also my club unlike my parents (who is doing really well with no debt or assessments) has ALL individual memberships.  This enables a larger pie of potential private golfers who would be on the fence if no one in their family played golf.  People with limited time, can justify paying for a low key private individual golf membership, but less can for a FAMILY membership one size fits all outdated model!  Lavish family vaca vs. Family membership only dad uses.   

[Brent Hutto]

As to the earlier question... would inclusive carts result in more cart usage?  According to the militant walkers in this thread the answer is "no" because they walk for the enjoyment of the game.  Do I believe that?  Hell no.

Just because I personally don't use golf carts, I wouldn't pretend for a moment that making carts available at no charge will somehow magically NOT result in more carts being used. For every person like me at a typical club there are ten people who might or might use a cart depending on the cost and their mood of the day.

Which was the point I was making earlier in the thread. The fee that you choose to charge for use a cart does affect your revenue. But it also affects how many carts will be used. Maybe not for every "militant" walker but across the several hundred members of a cluib, you betcha the cost matters.

[mike_beene]

I am aware of a club in Texas that switched to including the cart fee in the membership. The number of walkers went down significantly. The last time I was there I as a guest was the only walker in my group and I saw one other walker.It used to be half and half based on my unscientific observation from  visiting a few times a year.

[Carl Johnson]

We looked at the idea several years ago and got scared by the wide disparity of rounds of golf throughout the membership. "Free carts" was a great deal for about 25% of the membership,not a big change for about 50% of the membership,but an extra ~ $1000/year for the bottom 25%. Nobody wanted to run the risk of having the bottom 25% walk out the door after realizing how few rounds they were playing.

JM hit the nail on the head which is why an inclusive cart fee is such a tough policy to adopt.  

. . .
As to the earlier question... would inclusive carts result in more cart usage?  According to the militant walkers in this thread the answer is "no" because they walk for the enjoyment of the game.  Do I believe that?  Hell no.

Roger, just for the record, it wouldn't affect me one way or another.  As you probably know, I walk for exercise, such as walking is, and because I think I play a little better when I walk (the pace suits me).  On the other hand, I'll ride if required for an event, if it is just too damn hot to walk, or if I'd be the only one in my group walking.  "Enjoyment of the game" is too abstract for me.  I guess you'd conclude that I'm not a "militant" walker.  Question - if carts were included as a part of everyone's dues, would bag and push cart (including power caddies) storage be included as well?  Seems like they should be.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()