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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 10:33:06 PM »
P Craig,

I think so, due to the ability to cite third party references, including some rather prominent clubs, icons of American Golf.

I'm not saying that it's easy, but, I think it's easier.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2011, 07:26:45 AM »
Pat is right, it is definitely easier, but never easy. I think in almost all cases, a major tree removal program takes a thick-skinned board and/or greens chairman backed by the written reports of the architect and USGA agronomist. It is easier now because so many courses have already led the way, and the word is definitely out that tree removal is a growing trend. There will always be hardcore tree huggers, but I think clubs just need to go ahead, trusting that the positive results will prove the correctness of the plan.

Cost is an issue, GREAT job by Mike Hogan and a good post!

The other part of "tree management" is tree pruning, which may be the most expensive tree work, but has some of the best benefits.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2011, 01:00:56 PM »
I think Tree removal is the single most difficult maintenance issue most clubs face. The concept that courses evolve is lost on most memberships. Trees grow slow and few members connect the before and after. In a word No, it not easier now than before whenever before is to be.

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 07:18:01 PM »
With all the clubs doing it successfully tree management should be easier to sell to your board of directors. Once you have permission just get started. The members will come around. Don't risk it by asking members for permission to get started - they might say no.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 07:36:07 PM by Mike McGuire »

Jeff Spittel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2011, 07:55:41 AM »
I am having a brutal time getting anyone to listen to my suggestions, but our course (BraeBurn CC in Houston) really needs to hold a chainsaw party. I sent a time series of aerials to the head pro and club gm, but the members would rather spend money on a new brick wall for the perimeter of the course. Bredemus is probably rolling over in his grave.

The typical retort from the younger guys/low handicap players is that the course would be too easy/it's only 6800 from the tips, etc.   
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2011, 02:59:10 PM »
Jeff,

Does the USGA agronomist visit your course? If he recommends tree removal, that is always a nice report to start with.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2011, 08:32:14 PM »
Jeff,

Does the USGA agronomist visit your course? If he recommends tree removal, that is always a nice report to start with.

How long does a USGA report take? Is it expensive?
H.P.S.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2011, 09:28:40 PM »
Jeff,

Does the USGA agronomist visit your course? If he recommends tree removal, that is always a nice report to start with.

How long does a USGA report take? Is it expensive?

I believe it is part of your club's USGA dues, or perhaps each club indicates how many visits per it wishes to schedule, and pays accordingly. When I was Grounds Chair I used to attend ( I seem to recall two meetings per year) and it was very interesting. The super and the USGA agronomist talk turf, chemicals, bugs, etc., most of which I had no clue about :)  The USGA guy will pull cores in the fairways and greens and study the turf, etc. And in his written report, which I made sure went to the full board, was always a comment about trees.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 09:32:18 PM by Bill Brightly »

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2011, 10:08:12 AM »
Bill, Is correct. Contract for a half day visit, should cost about $750. And buy them lunch...RHE

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2011, 10:13:47 AM »
Definitely easier but harder to fund with all of the other budget considerations and adjustments that must be accounted for in this economy. I think we would actually see a lot more tree removal if we had the funds that were available ten years ago.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships? New
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2011, 01:11:07 PM »
Many of our forests and urban woodlands are currently under assault, or have the potential for serious damage, from several aggressive pests and bacterium. Whlie the impacts and practical solutions for these issues are ongoing, and in the early stages of evolving, some information is available that I hope will help those seeking answers to what is unfolding.

As an avid outdoorsman, landscape professional and ardent golfer, what I'm seeing out in the field, within or near golf facilities, is alarming and of great concern. As our forests and woodland settings are the regenerators of our ecosystems, the significants threats they have been experiencing are serious issues.

In America, three pests, two that are foreign invaders, and one native than has shown explosive growth in destructive numbers outside its traditional range, bear watching. All three attack the vascular systems of trees, inhibiting the transfer of nutrients to the tree, much in the same way our human system transports blood to our various body parts. As this ability diminishes, the tree begins to stress, shuts down and then dies, often within weeks.

 Public Enemy # 1  -  EAB- Emerald ash borer-  A faster-moving, invasive pest from Asia that hitched a ride here, probably in packing crates, first discovered stateside in 2002(Michigan and Winsor, Canada). There are two treatment methods showing promise. While no absolutes can be claimed, these both have shown a fairly consistent ability to mitigate infestation and death of ash trees due to EAB. Ideally, treatment should begin shortly prior to EAB being discoverd nearby. An extensive and comprehensive trapping/monitoring network has been set up nationally, with ash-dense forest land and woodland settings getting priority status.

1) Soil -drench or injection with ground probe- Prodect name- Merit, active ingredient-Imidacloprid, treat Mid-Fall, and/or late Spring. Caution must be used when applications are in areas near waterbodies, as studies have shown potential for adversely affecting species of beneficial insects and other wildlife.

2) Trunk Injection-Product Name-Tree-age, active ingredient-Emamectin benzoate, treat early May to mid-June.

Some arborists are combining both as a double-prevention option. The soil drench approach has shown solid results thus far.

Costs vary from $200.00-$500.00 per tree, depending on size and topography. Generally, each treatment last 2 years. Obviously monitoring pest movement, numbers with traps to ascertain activity, and ash tree populations, all are sound compliments to achieving maximum preservation of treated ash trees. It is also advised to vary the size and age of trees selected for preservation treatments, as the research and survival rates have many factors involved that haven't been established yet. It is also hoped that some natural selection will occur among untreated ash trees than show inherent resistance to EAB.

Public Enemy # 2 - ALB- Asian Longhorned Bettle- this is one nasty hombre! Another packing crate denizen from Asia, it has shown a voracious appetite for a wide variety of tree species. The only positve thing about this little piece of work is it moves slowly, so while there are NO KNOWN eradication or preventive treatments, once an infestation is discovered, a quarantine, complete removal and incineration of the tree material will eliminate the problem if complete containment is achieved. Needless to say, this isn't cheap and involves a lot of man hours, so monitoring is crucial and needed to quickly identify and neutralize the beasts! Outbreaks have been dealt with in New York, Chicago and Worchester, Mass. New Jersey also has had limited infestations.

Public Enemy # 3-  SPBS- Southern Pine Bark Beetle- Native, but expanding to new areas in prolific numbers, with devestating results for a variety of pine species, primarily due to milder Winters which prevent larvae die-off that formerly restricted their migration. Severe drought conditions in the Mid-Atlantic states also have been associated with their explosive damage, as trees under stress are more easily attacked.

Interestingly, this pest also carries the blue stain funges, which works in concert with the beetle by suppressing the "pitch" or sap pines produce to help defend against pest infestation. While woodpeckers, and some other insect species prey on SPBB, during major population spikes, only quarantine, removal and incineration will suffice to end the threat.

Additionally,  BLS- Bacterial Leaf Scorch- an infectious, chronic disease transmitted by xylem feeding insects, has shown dramatic increases of occurence in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic regions during the last several years. With no known cure, it has shown to be a serious problem for certain host trees such as: maples, oaks, sweet gum and American elm, among others. It generally takes several years for the bacterium, Xylella fastidosa, to totally kill the tree, but it becomes stressed and unsightly within a year of infection.



As the complexity and layered overview of all that is involved with these tree management concerns would confirm, a wing-it, reactive aproach to tree care for any property, but especially golf facilities, is unwise. Progressive property owners and management folks understand that a solid relationship with an established, certified arborist team is the way to go. Those that make decisions from a knowledge-based, light footprint perspective, when assessing tree care issues, come out wth superior results in the long term. Why wouldn't you manage the tree canopy component with an integrated approach that compliments the comprehensive care of the turf? They don't function independently, why would you manage them differently? It makes no sense, yet the vast majority of property managers take a wait-and-hope nothing happens approach to their tree concerns.


While this rather sobering information is ment to illuminate, not depress, folks seeking a better understanding of what is transpiring, my hope is that all of us come away with a better appreciation for some of the negative elements this embracing of the "global economy" mantra can produce.
Humanity, being mammals, has evolved over thousands of years. If you look at most mammal species, significant portions of their day are spent resting or in an unstressed state. Conversely, if you look at our increasingly frantic, hard-wired existence...ordered by who...the greedy clowns that seek to wring ever more from every soul possible...it becomes clear...this unsustainble insanity needs a major course correction! So my friends, let's appreciate each other a lit more, take time to share insights with those who add to our lives, and REJECT the nonsense that we don't have to question what the hell is going on once in a while.

Cheers,
Kris 8)

P.S. - Anyone needing more info can kindly IM me your email and cell details and I'll help as best I can.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 07:49:05 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Jeff Spittel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2011, 07:45:16 AM »
Bill,

The USGA agronomist was out to the club a few years ago when they did the redesign. I believe the comment from them was "are you guys trying for an arboretum or a golf course?"
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have tree "management" programs become easier to sell to memberships?
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2011, 10:24:14 AM »
Ask for a copy of the written report. I bet he has a comment about trees and the need for removal. Maybe your club needs to schedule another visit and make sure the written report comments on trees.

Are you close with your current Greens Chair? If he is a tree hugger, you are probably going no where. But if the Greens Chair (and I assume the Superintendent) are in favor of tree removal, the written USGA report carries a lot of weight.

Too bad you are in Texas. Up north we have a few months to remove selected trees and clean up the mess before golfers return in April. One of my favorite things to do when playing with a tree hugger early in the season was to ask him "what is different about this hole?" when I knew we had taken down a tree or two, and rarely could they remember the tree(s). One was a HUGE willow 50 yards off a tee that you seemingly could never forget. It was starting to fall in the pond. We took it down in December and not one guy noticed it gone the next year...

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