[Kalen Braley]

I know pictures can be misleading so I'm really biting my tongue here on what appears to be some very absurdly narrow holes.

So as another data point, I was wondering if anyone here has played both McCormick Woods and Sahalee?  I played MW on my recent trip over to Seattle and I'd be curious to hear how it stacks up in terms of narrowness when it comes to Sahalle.

Thanks,

Kalen

[Dale Jackson]

Interesting, 11 is one of my favourite holes.  Yes the approach is extremely narrow and the trees guarding the green could perhaps be trimmed a bit, but I like par 5s that make you really think about placement of the second shot to setup the third and this hole certainly does that.  The opening to the green is very small but if you miss placing the second by a bit there is the challenge of perhaps going over the trees or working a slight fade or draw depending on the day's hole location.  I enjoy the challenge.

Kalen, first off I agree completely that photos can make most holes with tall trees appear much narrower than they are, that is the case with Sahalee for sure.  When I posted my profile of Royal Colwood a couple of years ago I received some of the same comments and, based on the photos, both courses look extremely tight, much tighter than they are in reality.

I have played both MW and Sahalee several times and don't think there is a comparison, I do not think of MW as a narrow course.  Now it has been several years since I was at MW so things may have grown in, but I think of that course as being set in the trees, but not necessarily being tree lined.  Sahalee is certainly tree lined.

[Sean Leary]

Kalen,

Sahalee is significantly tighter than McCormick Woods. Less OB though at Sahalee as MW has a lot of OB on both sides.

Think of the tight holes at indian canyon and make it narrower and with taller trees.

The third 9 is the tightest of the 3. I am convinced you could take out 1000 trees and nobody would notice.

[Kalen Braley]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the feedback.  I thought McCormick Woods was on the narrow side without being brutal.  Based on your feedback it sounds like Sahalee takes a big step up in that department as it compares to MW, so that gives me a ball park idea.  It would seem the photos don't stray too far in accurately representing the narrowness.

P.S.  While Indian Canyon is a bit more narrow than McCormick, in total I felt like they played fairly similar in terms of available space in the playing corridors.

[Mark Saltzman]

Kalen,

I am somewhat torn on the narrowness of Sahalee.  I think the width of the corridors (from left trees to right) is adequate.  Not wide by any stretch, but adequate.  Perhaps because trees are generally only 1/2 stroke penalties, I didn't get the same sense of 'hit it here or else' that I got at The Idaho Club.  The biggest issue at Sahalee is on the holes where the trees (I think by design) intrude on the playing corridors.  The centerline trees on 4 and 11 are obvious examples, but also the overhanging trees on 3, 6, and 8 are examples. 

Given the narrowness of the corridors, one (or at least I) would expect that a shot that keeps the balls within the confines of the trees left and right should be rewarded with a shot at the green, but perhaps too often one must find a small portion of the fairway to have a shot at the green. 

I suppose this is a shot-maker's golf course as the ability to move the ball around the trees is very valuable.  But, I would think that often the average player is frustrated after hitting decent shots only to have no shot at the green.

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

And that really is what i'm picking up on when viewing these pictures.  It not just good enough to hit it somewhere in the short grass, which appears to be challenge enough.  You also have to hit it in the correct portion of the short grass to have any hope to get the approach near the green

That being said, the green complexes do look to be interesting, which is nice...but on the whole, the course looks to be a bit of a repetitive ball bluster where its:

1)  Hit tee shot
2)  Punch out/layup
3)  Try to avoid one of the bunkers and get it on green to maybe save par.

One or two holes likes that isn't a problem...hell its a fun challenge.  But to have 18 holes of this on tee after tee....it just doesn't look to be much fun. 

[Doug Wright]

But, I would think that often the average player is frustrated after hitting decent shots only to have no shot at the green.

Sounds like a lot of fun Mark! I think I'll pass on Sahalee.

[JNC Lyon]

From the pictures, Sahalee looks:

Narrow
Very overtreed
Boring as hell
Artificial
devoid of options
Excruciatingly difficult

Not on my short list of courses to see.

[George Freeman]

All I can say from seeing these pictures:  if you were a member or played here frequently, you would have one hell of a punch-shot!!

[Garland Bayley]

...
Indian Canyon was the top dog here in Spokane and I wouldn't put it any higher than a 5 to 5.5 on the DS.

There you have it folks. Kalen has Palouse Ridge higher than Indian Canyon. He's gone over the edge. Who wants to do the intervention?

[Kalen Braley]

...
Indian Canyon was the top dog here in Spokane and I wouldn't put it any higher than a 5 to 5.5 on the DS.

There you have it folks. Kalen has Palouse Ridge higher than Indian Canyon. He's gone over the edge. Who wants to do the intervention?

We'll intervene when you can find a group of guys who have played both who think Indian Canyon is the better course.

However, give Indian Canyon a nice little renovation, spice it up a bit with some fairway bunkering, chop down a few select trees, and get those greens back up to 8-9 on the Stimp and things may be different.

[Garland Bayley]

What's the terrain like at Sahalee? It's hard to imagine is has a routing that maximizes the natural features like many others that have done courses in WA, e.g. Dan Hixson, John Harbottle, Tom Doak. It looks cookie cutter.

[Terry Lavin]

If ever a course should be named for a tree, this is it.

[Joe Stansell]

...
Indian Canyon was the top dog here in Spokane and I wouldn't put it any higher than a 5 to 5.5 on the DS.

There you have it folks. Kalen has Palouse Ridge higher than Indian Canyon. He's gone over the edge. Who wants to do the intervention?

We'll intervene when you can find a group of guys who have played both who think Indian Canyon is the better course.

However, give Indian Canyon a nice little renovation, spice it up a bit with some fairway bunkering, chop down a few select trees, and get those greens back up to 8-9 on the Stimp and things may be different.

I might be willing to volunteer. I love Indian Canyon, although admittedly its been a few years and even then it was probably due for some updating. I've also played Palouse but I'm still  in the unconvinced camp. I don't think it will have the same staying power that Indian Canyon has had, but I could be wrong.

[Garland Bayley]

...
That being said, the green complexes do look to be interesting,...

Mark,

Were you able to discern whether there we actually any differences between the individual greens out there? Your pictures make them look like they took Ted's favorite potato chip as a model and maybe rotated it some to give a little different look on each hole.

[Mark Saltzman]

...
That being said, the green complexes do look to be interesting,...

Mark,

Were you able to discern whether there we actually any differences between the individual greens out there? Your pictures make them look like they took Ted's favorite potato chip as a model and maybe rotated it some to give a little different look on each hole.

Garland,

Great description, that actually made me start laughing.  No doubt a lot of the holes have the same sort of humps/ridge around the perimeter of the green, but there are a couple of greens that stand out. 

The fourth green was the only two-tiered green I played at Sahalee (IIRC).

There were several greens that had wings or lobes that were protected well by bunkers, creating the possibility for 'tucked' pins (holes 6 and 9 are examples).

There were a couple of greens with (very) significant front-to-back tilt (holes 13(?) and 16).

Overall, I did find the greens fairly interesting, though far too soft. I don't know if this is the norm or just the conditions I got the day I played it.  Aldarra was much firmer.

[Mark Saltzman]

...
Indian Canyon was the top dog here in Spokane and I wouldn't put it any higher than a 5 to 5.5 on the DS.

There you have it folks. Kalen has Palouse Ridge higher than Indian Canyon. He's gone over the edge. Who wants to do the intervention?

We'll intervene when you can find a group of guys who have played both who think Indian Canyon is the better course.

However, give Indian Canyon a nice little renovation, spice it up a bit with some fairway bunkering, chop down a few select trees, and get those greens back up to 8-9 on the Stimp and things may be different.

Kalen,

You talk about Indian Canyon a heck of a lot, but there has been no photo tour posted.  Don't you think it's about time for one?

[Garland Bayley]

...
Indian Canyon was the top dog here in Spokane and I wouldn't put it any higher than a 5 to 5.5 on the DS.

There you have it folks. Kalen has Palouse Ridge higher than Indian Canyon. He's gone over the edge. Who wants to do the intervention?

We'll intervene when you can find a group of guys who have played both who think Indian Canyon is the better course.

However, give Indian Canyon a nice little renovation, spice it up a bit with some fairway bunkering, chop down a few select trees, and get those greens back up to 8-9 on the Stimp and things may be different.

Kalen,

You talk about Indian Canyon a heck of a lot, but there has been no photo tour posted.  Don't you think it's about time for one?

Yeah Kalen, Top this
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41300.0.html

[Kalen Braley]

...
Indian Canyon was the top dog here in Spokane and I wouldn't put it any higher than a 5 to 5.5 on the DS.

There you have it folks. Kalen has Palouse Ridge higher than Indian Canyon. He's gone over the edge. Who wants to do the intervention?

We'll intervene when you can find a group of guys who have played both who think Indian Canyon is the better course.

However, give Indian Canyon a nice little renovation, spice it up a bit with some fairway bunkering, chop down a few select trees, and get those greens back up to 8-9 on the Stimp and things may be different.

Kalen,

You talk about Indian Canyon a heck of a lot, but there has been no photo tour posted.  Don't you think it's about time for one?

Mark,

I've been around the GCA.com block long enough now to perhaps be considered a veteran, even though I'm certainly not in the "old timer or grizzled vet" category yet.   

Safe to say, I've done at least as many course reviews over the years that you have done lately, if not more.  I just haven't done many lately because most of the new courses I've played have already been very nicely reviewed.

But ask and ye shall receive...here is the one I did on Indian Canyon back in 2007.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31538.0.html

[Jim Nugent]

Did the construction crew have to cut down trees to create the fairways and playing corridors, or did those open spaces already exist before Robinson designed the course? 

[Mark Saltzman]

3 North   Par 4   Yards: 458

Requires the most accurate tee shot. Fairway narrows at about 260 yards to two fairway bunkers. Tree on the right side of the fairway just beyond the bunker could block the approach shot right, and a tree 100 yards from the green could block a tee shot that strays left.

Don't remember this hole either...













4 North   Par 3   Yards: 176

Green, protected by two bunkers in the front and one in the back, slopes from front to back.

This one I remember. For the third P3 in-a-row, I hit 5-iron.  When you get to the tee you say, "yup, that's a par-3 alright."  Bunkers left, right and long.









5 North   Par 4   Yards: 376

Short but sharp dogleg left. Landing area surrounded by four bunkers about 225 yards from the tee. Second shot slightly downhill to a green protected by a large tree on the front right of the green and bunkers front left and back right.

14 was the start of a three-hole stretch that I enjoyed.  The tee shot makes you decide whether to lay-up off the tee or try to carry the hill.




Noticeable fairway undulation adds considerable interest to the hole.  A tee shot that lays-up to the bunkers will be left with a semi-blind approach:




A tee shot that challenges the bunkers is left with a great look at the green:




But, don't hit it down over the hill or you will be blocked out by, you guessed it, a tree!

[Mark Saltzman]

6 North   Par 4   Yards: 417

Elevated tee with trees lining both sides of the fairway from tee to green. Two trees toward the center of the fairway about 265 yards out narrows the landing area and looks like a saddle. Any drive left or right is usually blocked by a tree. Slightly elevated green, guarded by two bunkers, has huge mound in the back center.

Another hole I liked with some interesting fairway undulation.  No room for error here.




The typical right-handed miss (short-right) is absolutely dead and will be blocked out by two trees.






The pictures fail to show the severe back-to-front slope on this green.  This green had more tilt than any other at Sahalee and really places a premium on being below the hole.







7 North   Par 4   Yards: 377

Dogleg right requires accuracy off the tee to keep large fir on right side from blocking approach shot. A huge fir tree blocks right side of the fairway, and a bunker left demands accuracy. Approach must carry a large depression to a two-tiered green. Two large bunkers guard the right front and left side.

[Joe Stansell]

I sat right behind the 7th green at the North Course during the NEC Tournament, and watched group after group come through. There was a big penalty paid for those who didn't find the right tier of this green.

[Mark Saltzman]

I sat right behind the 7th green at the North Course during the NEC Tournament, and watched group after group come through. There was a big penalty paid for those who didn't find the right tier of this green.

Joe,

Standing in the fairway I thought that shots that came up short of the green could come back all the way down to the bottom of the hill.  Accidentally, I found out that if you land just short with the very soft conditions, the ball kind-of plugs and just sits right there.

In tournament conditions, did you see balls coming back down the slope?

[Joe Stansell]

Joe,

Standing in the fairway I thought that shots that came up short of the green could come back all the way down to the bottom of the hill.  Accidentally, I found out that if you land just short with the very soft conditions, the ball kind-of plugs and just sits right there.

In tournament conditions, did you see balls coming back down the slope?

As I remember it, the pin was tucked back right, so most misses were to the lower tier, with a few finding a bunker. I don't remember any coming up short and rolling back down the hill. Not that it didn't happen, I just don't remember.

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