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Sean_A

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2011, 07:09:11 PM »
Thomas

For sure Oxbridge is a special breed, but do note that they go several teams deep so at least they share the fun round amongst the less gifted players.  I played agianst Oxford twice and there were a few chaps that seemed out of place.  It would seem the living is so good on the Oxbridge circuit that these kids can't keep up!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tom Kelly

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2011, 07:11:29 PM »
Tom D,

At RCP we host both the Cambridge and Oxford golf teams each year and I don't believe that for the couple of days' golf, drinks and meals their hand ever goes in their pocket! ;D As you say, it's not a bad set-up.

Thomas K,

An undergrad at Oxford or Cambridge pays US$4,000-6,000 a year. An undergrad at Yale or Harvard pays in the mid-$30,000s. If the British universities were to start charging an American fee structure, I'm sure they could build some golf courses.

Oxford is impossible to get into for a kid from a state-run school? Not true. We have at least one among us.

From next year onwards the British universities will be charging the highest fees in the world for public universities as the government is withdrawing more of their funding. They will be over £9000 a year for your bog standard university even ex-polytechnic, which doesn't even compare to Harvard or Yale.

Oxford and Cambridge are plenty rich enough and for other universities even if they had the money they wouldn't build a golf course, but spend it elsewhere in the university. Sports are nowhere near the top priority, even the suggestion of a university golf course over here would be laughed at.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 07:58:59 PM by Thomas Kelly »

Tom Kelly

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2011, 07:14:26 PM »
Thomas

For sure Oxbridge is a special breed, but do note that they go several teams deep so at least they share the fun round amongst the less gifted players.  I played agianst Oxford twice and there were a few chaps that seemed out of place.  It would seem the living is so good on the Oxbridge circuit that these kids can't keep up!

Ciao

This is another pet hate I had about my university and having spoken to others around the country it seemed we were not alone.  Anyone with who wasn't good enough for the top 'BUSA' teams in the uni were ignored.

Again Oxbridge is an exception. I wish I was so lucky!!

Tom Kelly

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2011, 07:24:52 PM »
I don't want to come across bitter and twisted about my university golf experience.....which I clearly am.....and I realise a few people in Britain get a great deal, but unfortunately the majority do not. This isn't just related to golf either sport in general is very low down on universities priorities and in most universities unless lottery funded you as the sportsman or woman and the sport are hugely under appreciated. I am certain if more funding was found and I am sure it can be found from somewhere, state or private, Britain would be better off as a sporting nation.

Hannah England who just won silver at the Athletics Worlds in the 1500m was in the year below me at my university and for her to get to that level going through the system I saw is just incredible and a complete rarity, most sportsmen or women in Britain do not get the chance to go to university and also compete in sport at a high level, they are forced to make the decision of one or the other at 18.

I wish this wasn't the case.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 08:02:40 PM by Thomas Kelly »

Colin Sheehan

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2011, 08:10:59 PM »
Yes, Yale is not part of the main campus, but it is 12 minutes away on land owned by the university and has all university employees.

I will correct you, Tom. With regard to playing great courses, the Yale golf team had a better 2010-2011 season than Cambridge.

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2011, 08:11:30 PM »
I played the campus course at William & Mary too many times to count.  The first tee was just beside the cannon in front of the Wren building and the green was through its two massive sets of double doors.  The routing was very utilitarian (though flexible) and the course was between 25 and 30 holes long, depending on day/moonlight.  No rules were waived, except that the fourteen-club maximum was trimmed to one (per group) and the tournament ball was made by Penn.

WW

Wade Whitehead

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2011, 08:12:51 PM »
The "Virginia Tech campus" course isn't even in Blacksburg.

WW

David Harshbarger

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2011, 08:18:20 PM »
I played the campus course at William & Mary too many times to count.  The first tee was just beside the cannon in front of the Wren building and the green was through its two massive sets of double doors.  The routing was very utilitarian (though flexible) and the course was between 25 and 30 holes long, depending on day/moonlight.  No rules were waived, except that the fourteen-club maximum was trimmed to one (per group) and the tournament ball was made by Penn.

WW

+1

I think we had a similar course....in addition to the one that had a starter shack.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Stewart Abramson

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2011, 08:52:24 PM »
The Hanover CC at Dartmouth College is right on Campus and is a fun course with several quirky holes, including one that plays as a par 3, par 4 or par 5 depending on which tee you use. The first time I played it (when my son was a student) I was the first player out in the morning as a single in the thickest fog I've ever been in. It was a miracle to find a ball that wasn't in a fairway. When I got the  the tenth tee, I realized I had only played 8 holes having hit to the wrong green on an earlier hole hole.  I prefer Hanover CC to the Princeton course. Of course neither is a Yale, but that's just as to their golf courses. ;D

Carl Nichols

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2011, 11:10:01 PM »
Stewart:
Have you played the new holes at Hanover CC?  They are probably better than the holes they replaced, but they make the course less quirky.  And I agree with you -- Yale's golf course is one of the few (non-academic) things one could prefer over Dartmouth!   ;D

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2011, 11:55:55 PM »
I don't want to come across bitter and twisted about my university golf experience.....which I clearly am.....and I realise a few people in Britain get a great deal, but unfortunately the majority do not. This isn't just related to golf either sport in general is very low down on universities priorities and in most universities unless lottery funded you as the sportsman or woman and the sport are hugely under appreciated. I am certain if more funding was found and I am sure it can be found from somewhere, state or private, Britain would be better off as a sporting nation.

Hannah England who just won silver at the Athletics Worlds in the 1500m was in the year below me at my university and for her to get to that level going through the system I saw is just incredible and a complete rarity, most sportsmen or women in Britain do not get the chance to go to university and also compete in sport at a high level, they are forced to make the decision of one or the other at 18.

I wish this wasn't the case.

Thomas reading your posts about how university students in Britain have it tough makes me chuckle.  Do you think students at American universities get to play these university courses for free?  I'd guess that at schools with golf courses the annual student rate is only marginally cheaper (if it is cheaper at all) than the rate for the college age annual fee at a good UK club.  The members of the golf teams do get to play free and that may be what you are upset about but then you also talk how the UK is put at a competitive disadvantage due to the lack of funding for university sports.  The directly to the professional setup clearly works for Europe and many of our best soccer/football players join a European club instead of going to college if they have the skills.  Similarly many of your best golfers go pro instead of going to University/College.

I guess I like being a student as I've spent a fair amount of time at a number of schools.  When I was at the Air Force Academy which has two courses (also kind of different because the academy is a military base and most bases have their own courses) that have been listed in this thread, I definitely agree it was a great deal for students but as I said before the price was comparable to annual fees for UK clubs for young adults.  I spent a semester at the Coast Guard Academy and there were 10 of us on their golf team/club who were provided free playing rights weekday afternoons and an occasional weekend at a local private course, but no one else at the school was granted access.  I would guess this experience is similar to the UK (minus the private club bit).  I also spent a year taking courses at Maryland which was listed on this thread and I only played the course once because I had cheaper and what I considered better options elsewhere (also they were renovating the course for much of my time there).  The two schools I've attended that had the best golf programs (UCLA and Ga Tech) do not have their own course and I would guess if they did have their own courses instead of playing a rotation of private courses the quality of the teams would suffer.  I would guess from the university perspective owning a golf course is more for alumni and staff than for students.

Tom Kelly

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2011, 07:58:29 AM »
Joe

Yes I am mainly talking about the elite players in the UK, but I also feel the opportunities for anyone wanting to play golf for fun at university in the UK are poor. My experience at the University of Birmingham which regularly are top in the golf leagues and linked with the PGA offer absolutely no support to the golfers. I believe the situation has slightly improved but not much since I was there due a couple of people who saw what I saw and had the opportunity to try to help which I was denied due to my degree course commitments.

During my time no reduced fees, organised matches against local clubs or fun knock abouts at weekends with fellow students were on offer. The team made up of the captain and his friends only played a couple of matches against local clubs. Everyone else was left on their own, even the students of the PGA degree course. I fear this is 'the norm' for universities in the UK especially England. I believe Scotland's historical links with golf make it a slightly higher priority there, but not much better. Unless a local club is willing to offer reduced rates which none local to my university did you have to pay full adult fees to join a course which was over £1000 a year for the only course I was able to get transport to as I didn't have a car. A slightly cheaper course which was further away meant I had to have a car which with the cost of running a car in the UK made it work out even more expensive. The only options I was left with in the 1st year was the odd trip to the driving range and the occasional 9 holes at the local municipal when someone offered me a lift. The course costs £10 for a round.....the cost sums up its quality.

The university team then managed to negotiate via the university a deal with the local club for a reduced fee for term time membership for the team players only (during my second year the team captain was an improvement on the first years but not much better). Most universities have a similar arrangement but as I mentioned before often with very poor quality golf courses. My example of Loughborough, one of the best sporting universities in the UK with a very poor course is the standard outside of Oxbridge universites and St Andrews.

I have seen first hand from visiting a friend who was on the golf team at Purdue University the facilities that are available to team players at top US universities. They makes the UK system laughable. Any good golfer in the UK who wants to play golf but also really wants to get a university education goes to America if they can get a scholarship. The university system over here has not produced a top professional golfer that I know about. The quality of the system puts a lot of people off going to university as they decided they wanted to concentrate on their golf and try to turn pro. I know of a few people who took this route and I doubt whether these guys will ever make it, but had the option of playing golf with the support and facilities on offer in the US at a UK university was available I am sure they would have taken the chance to help their golf and get a sold education behind them to fall back on. I believe it would have helped their golf game and enabled them to further they chances of making the grade.

Most of the current top British golfers went to university in the US

Luke Donald
Graeme McDowell
Oliver Wilson
Paul Casey
Martin Laird
Colin Montgomerie(!)

To name a few.

Only the players with immense talent who turn pro at 18 make the grade, many I feel would have been helped by the buffer university golf gives them to mature and improve their game before making the switch. Talented players such as Justin Rose and more recently Oliver Fisher have nearly lost their tour cards after turning pro at a young age, before they were ready.

I fully respect that these courses do not mean golf at US universities is great for everyone, but even the concept of a university wanting to offer facilities of this sort of quality is a fantastic thing in my mind which is unfortunately not likely to happen in the UK anytime soon.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 12:48:23 PM by Thomas Kelly »

Lou_Duran

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2011, 11:06:00 AM »
I think that my annual pass and locker at Ohio State cost me $100 as late as 1978.

I've played several of the courses on the subject list and it has little credibility.  Perhaps it suffers from the same issues as the "best in the state" lists.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2011, 09:53:14 PM »
A-Wake Forest has Old Town Club a driver from campus, but it might as well be farther, as no access is granted beyond the golf teams;

B-Some of those courses (Vanderbilt comes to mind) from the lists don't grant access to students, while others charge so much that it's not worth it to play;

C-Middlebury has a decent course in the Ralph Myhre layout...it's quirky at times and certainly not a professional design... http://www.middlebury.edu/about/facilities/golfcourse/18

D-Yale...wow...

Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2011, 11:01:14 PM »
Can't argue with the list but Ohio State Scarlet is world class!

Mark Hissey

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2011, 11:10:04 PM »
There is a fantastic McKenzie routing above the fireplace in the clubhouse too. Unfortunately, they don't seem to take very good care of it.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2011, 03:53:32 PM »
A-Wake Forest has Old Town Club a driver from campus, but it might as well be farther, as no access is granted beyond the golf teams;

B-Some of those courses (Vanderbilt comes to mind) from the lists don't grant access to students, while others charge so much that it's not worth it to play;

C-Middlebury has a decent course in the Ralph Myhre layout...it's quirky at times and certainly not a professional design... http://www.middlebury.edu/about/facilities/golfcourse/18

D-Yale...wow...



Students at Yale get it around for $25. Find me a better deal anywhere for the quality of the course.

Brad Tufts

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Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2011, 11:34:26 AM »
Stewart:
Have you played the new holes at Hanover CC?  They are probably better than the holes they replaced, but they make the course less quirky.  And I agree with you -- Yale's golf course is one of the few (non-academic) things one could prefer over Dartmouth!   ;D

Hey Carl,

I've played HCC about 20 times, and while I used to hate it, I now think it's pretty fun.  They did take out some quirk (used to be 5900 par 69 when I went to golf camp there in 95 when I was in high school), but the new holes are pretty quirky too.  The original course had some neat holes, but a few things were very strange, such as the turf mat tee box on the par 3 12th.

Six new holes were added in about 2000, the current #6 (same tee, new green location), #11, #12, #15 (new green location), #16 and the wacky #17.  The coolest part, however,  might be the choose-your-own-adventure extra holes located in the woods across the street from the middle of the course.  Several of these greens date back to Ralph Barton.

So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top campus golf courses
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2011, 11:36:53 AM »
C-Middlebury has a decent course in the Ralph Myhre layout...it's quirky at times and certainly not a professional design... http://www.middlebury.edu/about/facilities/golfcourse/18



There's something I assumed I'd never see...a mention of the Ralph Myhre in a discussion of the country's best college courses.  While it holds a place in my heart as my home course in college...it is not a great design by any stretch.  I would say "a course worth seeing if within 10 minutes!"  Outside of that, go try Neshobe in Brandon, VT 25 minutes south.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....