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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2011, 12:17:53 PM »
Ponds!

I guess you knew that was coming.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2011, 02:27:02 PM »
This might be minor, but my pet peeve is razor edge cuts on the outside of bunkers, so when you ball hits the greenside face, it caroms against the back of the bunkers and you have no swing (at the green.) I know it is  ahazard and the UK guys will laugh at this... but I think it is simply lazy construction on a parkland course.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2011, 02:30:33 PM »
Just encountered one yesterday: My pitching wedge from 120 plugged in the face of a bunker, just under the lip, and in order to get a swing at it, I had to stand in that bunker face as my feet sunk up to my shins in sand.

There was a reason the ODGs built grass-faced bunkers.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Brad Wilbur

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2011, 02:33:34 PM »
OB on both sides of a hole.

David Cronheim

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2011, 02:54:03 PM »
There was a reason the ODGs built grass-faced bunkers.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more.
Check out my golf law blog - Tee, Esq.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2011, 03:43:25 PM »
jurbina.....
I think what he meant was differing styles of bunkers...oka mixing modern with old Fazio with Ross for example, rather than what terrain and climate dictate...at least that is what I meant...

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2011, 04:03:51 PM »

Long rough lining both sides of a fairway, on a public/muni course. I don't care if it looks "natural".... I refused to deal with 5 1/2 rounds because somebody in the group in front (or two, or three) is looking for a ball in it on every single hole.

And forced layups. It is especially nauseating for me because I tend to hit my driver straighter than most clubs in my bag.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2011, 04:12:49 PM »
1.  Courses that feature all long par 3's.  I believe it is an attempt to increase the yardage on the card at the sacrifice of interest.

2.  Courses where the wide side of the fairway consistently yields the better angle into the green.  Usually this is a symptom of a resort course that wants to steer the player in the right direction and coddle poor shots.  I prefer such holes as "changeups" thrown in to give advantage to the competitor that pays attention.

3.  Designs that assume specific turn points.  I would guess that every group I play in has a driving distance disparity of at least 30 yards and often double that amount.  Throw in variable winds, ground conditions and temperatures and any assumed distance off the tee is sure to be inaccurate.  

4.  Greens that slope in the opposite direction of the general slope of the land.  Not sure why I dislike this but I seem to find such slopes on designs I dislike.  I would think it would cause maintenence headaches as well.

5.  Courses with hidden extra room to the right.  Common in Arizona.  Not sure why it bugs me.  I understand why it is done but what about leftys?

Carl Rogers

Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2011, 04:44:51 PM »
1. arbitrary mowing lines
2. a forced lay up second shot on short par 5's
3. holes that are too similar in length and design
4. green complexes too similar
5. faux risk  - reward  holes (that only exist only for +5 golfers)

RDecker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2011, 05:24:14 PM »
Anything to do with Donald Trump, especially waterfalls.

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2011, 05:42:11 PM »
I forgot one...

4) Dogleg par 3s.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2011, 12:29:44 AM »
Mark, you're too young to have played the original 16th hole at Hazeltine...
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2011, 01:11:31 AM »
Many things I dislike have been listed already but to add I dislike par 3's as an opening hole, extremely elevated tees to a diagonal fairway and on public courses that receive high levels of play I dislike when the tee box is just off the the green and 90 degrees to the right.

Jim Nugent

Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2011, 01:15:41 AM »
Walking only courses where you finish a hole, drop your bag at the start of the fairway, walk back 150+ yards and hit back towards where you started.

As caddies, we used to love those holes.  :D

Jim Nugent

Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2011, 01:17:34 AM »
I forgot one...

4) Dogleg par 3s.

...especially that play around massive trees 50 yards off the tee.  I encountered one of these in a St. Paul MN muni, back around 1980. 

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2011, 01:44:49 AM »
Cart paths that cross fairways.  I especially hate the ones that cross in the landing area of a layup shot on a par 5 (this seems to be where they like to make them cross).

Fairways that slope hard towards cart paths.

Cart paths with curbs.

Cart paths.

Man-made ponds with big rocks around the edges.

Fairways with water on both sides (Florida).

Stadium-like mounding around greens.

Holes that force you to lay-up off of the tee but then call for a long forced carry on the second shot.

Decorative rock formations placed throughout the course and in play.

Flowerbeds in play.



"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2011, 06:52:00 AM »
Hour glass shaped approaches

Containment mounding in the back of greens

Elevated tees

Cart paths and curbs

Non-native tree plantings

No-mow zones through the green

Mike Tanner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2011, 01:13:53 PM »
Containment mounds!
The ones lining fairways hardly ever look natural and they're only half effective. marginally offline shots that land on the backside are just propelled deeper into the woods. And the ones around greens create a catcher's mitt look that's really abhorrent.
Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2011, 01:34:01 PM »
Cart paths that cross fairways

Scott Stearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2011, 01:59:47 PM »
These are pet peeves, no?  so they dont have to be fair.

Long green to tee walks, ESPECIALLY on new courses.

Par 3s that play to similar yardages--every par three should require a DRAMATICALLY different club, or at least different shot.

Forced carries over water or lost/OB--but i can forgive one or two in a course.

OB/water/Lost ball on the first hole

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2011, 03:37:27 PM »
Architects who don't even try to route a course so that it is walkable.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Kyle Harris

Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2011, 06:21:48 PM »
This spring I played RTJ Sr.'s Otter Creek in Columbus, IN. Nearly every dogleg had a bunker on the inside of the elbow, and numerous times I thought I hit a perfect drive directly over the bunker or even its inside edge. Time and time again I would walk up the fairway expecting to see a ball only to find it caught up in rough well beyond the backslope of the bunker...


It seems as if you have mastered, or at least tamed, the physical challenges of the game.

The mental ones, however...

Kyle Harris

Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2011, 06:23:59 PM »
Now, I'm not always for fairness on the golf course, but when a bunker is set at a location and a distance that says "challenge me", I think there should be some sort of reward for executing the shot.

There is one. You're closer to the hole than you would be if you took the outside route.

Distance is the first, foremost, and most important hazard in the game.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2011, 11:59:25 AM »
Courses that have more than 400 yards between different sets of tees. 

Case in point, Forest Dunes in Michigan has tees at:

I:   7,141
II:  6,579
III: 5,920
 
Much too wide of a gap.  Under such circumstances, courses should offer a 'blended' set of tees on the scorecard.

Scorecard:  http://www.forestdunesgolf.com/f036f125fe_sites/www.forestdunesgolf.com/files/FRDSC.pdf

Erin Hills, before one of the more recent re-dos (I've lost count), had tee boxes at 5,950 and then at 6,700. Thankfully, they added in a set at 6,400.

http://www.erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_score_card.aspx
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are you pet peeves in course design?
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2011, 12:28:18 PM »
Courses that have more than 400 yards between different sets of tees. 

See also: the Trophy Club in Lebanon, IN.  An otherwise very good golf course with a lot of interesting holes.  My one complaint, however, is exactly what you describe, only slightly more extreme.
http://www.thetrophyclubgolf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29&Itemid=43

Black tees: 7,317 yards
Blue tees: 6,580 yards

737 yards difference!  There's also a 575 yard difference between the blues and whites (6,006).  It took me about 2 minutes to go through the card and come up with a composite set of tees at about 6,900 yards, with some variety of length throughout, eliminating the tips on the couple of very long par fours, as well as mixing the lengths of par 3s.  There's no reason the club couldn't do the same and get it rated/sloped.  It was really the only drawback for me when I played there.  Next time I'm in the area, I'll probably come up with a mix beforehand and not worry about posting a score. 

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