Most Amazing Statistic Yet on Technology

[David Wigler]

Some of the recent statistics I have seen on Technology Advances have been startling.  One of my favorites is that in 1980 Dan Pohl led the Tour in driving distance at 274.3.  In 2000, that would have put him 94th on the Tour, 117th on Buy.com and 18th on the Senior Tour.  Another favorite is that 35-year-old Hale Irwin averaged 250.2 in 1980 and 55-year-old Hale Irwin averaged 267.1 in 2000.  Hale aged 20 years and got 17 yards longer.  Yesterday I saw one that blew me away.  Brad Faxon had 14 Eagles total from 1997 - 2000 and 17 in 2001 (He switched to the Pro V1).  Anyone else heard some amazing statistics about what technology is doing to the game?

[RJ_Daley]

Yeh, I heard one.  A new 7800 yard golf course design in rural Wisconsin!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

David,
It has everything to do with that suppliment called Superhuman Strength Pro V1, where all of these average tour pros found such remarkable distance and stamania.

They plan on selling it on the open market, through informercials, and figure that they can make millions off of it.

Some very interesting numbers there.
Thanks!

[Tim_Weiman]

Dick Daley:

Maybe you are on to something.  Perhaps the USGA should secretly build a 9,000 course specifically for the US Open.

And then just days before the next US Open announce a venue change.

The USGA could always say "new technology is always good for the game, but we also wanted to balance technology with tradition and build a course that would last at least a generation.  That way we wouldn't need to spend money later updating the course for improvements in equipment.  It's exactly what Alister Mackenzie would have done.  He believed in the importance of finality."

[TEPaul]

Yeah, I've got an amazing stat for you. This hopped up equipment is adding all this yardage to the game for everyone! Everyone but me! The pro VI doesn't do anything for me except feel a bit better chipping and putting.

Everybody is hitting it so much farther today and it's ruining the game! Just once I'd like to see what a ruined game feels like!

[Rich_Goodale]

Same with me, Tom!

TommyN--can you send us some samples of that supplement that we are obviously missing?

[David Wigler]

Tom,

I am not claiming that the game is being ruined but it is being changed dramatically.  Two years ago, I played Strata Tour Professionals in most of my fun rounds and Titleist Professionals in most of my tournament rounds.  I was five yards longer with the Strata but I got a lot more spin and control with the Titleist.  Every now and then, I would be invited to a scramble as the guy who could bang it off the tee.  I would tee it up with a Slazenger and felt I could approach and occasionally exceed 300 yards.  I switched to the Pro V1 last year.  I am every bit as long as I was with the Slazenger and every step of ten yards longer than the Professional off the tee and yet sacrifice not one ounce of control around the green.  This reduced by one full club, the approach shots I was hitting into greens.  My handicap dropped from a 7 to a 5.  I can attribute 1/2 a stroke to playing smarter and 1 1/2 strokes to the ball and my new Ping driver.  I clearly believe that technology is changing the game.  

For instance, I would now play a 185-yard downhill Redan with a 7 - Iron.  Three years ago, it would have required a 5 iron (And the strategy decisions I suspect the architect intended).

[Jim_Kennedy]

David,
Heres are a couple: The average handicap of male golfers hasn't appreciably changed in the past twenty years.
In 1980 the average drive on the PGA Tour was 256.8 yds..
In 2001 the average drive on the PGA tour was 275.2 yds..

I do believe technology has impacted the game, it just hasn't made it much easier for the vast majority of regular players who may or may not be experiencing any gain of distance. I would also suggest that any statistic regarding length at the professional level should be tempered by the improvements in course conditioning, player conditioning, swing technique, and last but not least, the way courses are set-up, especially on the Senior Tour. I don't know how to go about figuring out what percentage of gain to attribute to each of these elements but I feel it might be as high as a 50/50 split between equipment and everything else.

[John_Conley]

Wiggles:

Your experience illustrates my point that the Pro V1 isn't magic.  Players are just far more open today to play harder balls.  Distance balls like an old Slaz or Top Flite that don't give up much in control characteristics.

The idea of teeing up at Titleist Tour Balata, de rigeur only a decade ago, is laughable.  If they did still make it, it would be BY FAR the shortest ball on the market.  A Pro V1 DOES NOT have the same softness characteristics, but people are now finally more open to playing a ball like that.

[Tony Ristola]

In the early 80's... 1981-82 or so Tom Kite won the Tournament of Champions with a driving distance for the week of 242 or 243 yards... Scott Simpson finished second with almost the exact average for the week... last year Arnold Palmer averaged 244 yards on the Senior Tour and is pumping iron because he feels he is hitting it too short.

Looks like the era of Corey Pavin type players (good management, crafty shortgame) has coming to a close.

Does anyone know who the shortest hitter on Tour was to win a tournament last year?

[Paul Richards]

David:

I've posted similar thoughts before, but here goes again.

Being lucky enough to get to play at the course I grew up
caddying at and working in the bag room at, I have been
around Beverly for over 22 years now (I'm 37 now).

Today, without much modification to the length of the course,
I hit the ball MUCH MUCH further than any of the really great
players I got to caddy for 20-some years ago.

Traps that the good players had to avoid, I can now blow
over, thanks to my Pro-V's and my titanium driver.

It's kind of sad to me, to think that me, as a 9-handicapper,
can hit it further than all those great players I looped for.

The longest drive I ever saw (back then) on #8?  I hit it past there now.

Technology IS changing the game.    

Not always for the better, IMHO.

[Jeff_Brauer]

If you saw the new Golf Digest, the Frank Thomas column addresses this, noting drives only increased 8 yards from 80 to 95, and 15 since then, with almost half of that in 2001 alone (6.7 yards).  What is interesting is that there was a bit of a decline from 88 to 94.

Thomas says its part big clubheads, and more that the pros are now using solid balls, not wound.  All other factors, big money, better athletes, shorter fairway cuts, etc. have been in play for twenty years.

[Mike_Cirba]

I mentioned this before, but two summers ago I played a course that I used to play in high school and college. (when I was a very limber, supposedly long hitting low handicap player who competed regularly in regional golf tournaments)

On every single hole, I drove to places where I had NEVER been before, despite the fact that I was then 41, certainly less flexible, and certainly a worse overall player.

What was strange to me is that I mentally had to consider places on the course that I never had to before.  Hazards that once merited strategic interest now weren't even a consideration.  

Something changed, and although my body has deteriorated in strength, flexibility, and stamina, my drives carried 20-30 yards further than in the days when I could see my clubhead during my backswing.

On the plus side, I'm also much better looking than I was back then.  Thankfully, women call those stress lines that form around the face, "character".  God bless 'em!

[JP Morgan]

John Conley,
   I received a Golfsmith catalog in the mail.  I believe on the back cover they were selling Titleist Tour Balata balls for something like $19.95 per dozen.  They are still out there for you!!  
   I do think they are however out of production, or at least scaled way, way back.  These balls are probably left over inventory from a couple of years ago and would probably be even more dead than expected compared to the fashionable nuveaux tech balls of today.
   It is still however, fairly "chic" to pull one out occasionally, blade a three iron, and check the ball out.  That smiley face brings back some definite memories.
   Happy ball striking!
       JP

        "CURSES!!  Bladed another one !!"

[Richard Chamberlain]

The Tennis circus is currently in full swing down here at present.
If I hear one more journo talk up the "power game" on the ladies tour, I swear i'm gunna chunder.

The "muscle" girls of Serena, Venus, Lindsay, Jennifer and Co are supposedly putting some distance between Martina and her perky little buddies. (forgive me for the use of the word "perky" but I just saw and hour or so of Martina and Anna K team up in the doubles) mmmmmm doubles.

So where was I...oh yeah, power versus precision.
Well Hingis just won a lead up tournament and I would still be keen to put some of my punting dough on the thinking playing Hingis in next weeks Oz Open.

I suppose i'm trying to draw comparisons between the green ball game and the white ball game. I seem to think most of the power girls game is because they are big, beefy, muscular lasses.
Surely the golfing lads are in much better shape these days too.

[Chris Kane]

Dr Kildare,

An interesting comparison you draw there.  I'd rather watch Martina or Anna or time over the others, not just for their choice of precision over power style!  

The same could be said for golf.  Watching a player use precision iron play with a variety of shots is infinitely more interesting than the guy who smashes it on every shot.

Watching sportspeople who use their brains rarely gets boring.  Watching Venus and Serena Williams does.

[Paul Richards]

Mike:

Your story sounds eerily familiar to mine.
 
Must be the "character" lines on our faces ...
 

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

I think the new balls also hold their round better, and thus putt much better.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jeff,
I'd bet the farm that Frank Thomas has forgotten more about his profession than most will ever know. I would not dispute what he said, however, the questionor did ask "what's the reason behind the sudden increase in driving distance?", not what has contributed to overall gains through the years.
If he were asked that question I think his response would include the reasons he outlines in the second paragraph of the article.

[David Wigler]

Dr. Kildare,

You selfish Bastard  .  How dare you not post a message on the bulletin board that Anna and Martina were playing doubles.  Those two in short mini-skirts or a debate on technology.  The debate can wait.

[Del]

I think Jim makes a most interesting point early in the thread, and that is that the average handicap is not getting better, despite the advances in technology.

To me, that brings up a couple of interesting questions:  1) WHY?  If equipment and its advanced technology is making the game "easier", why aren't the average handicaps coming down?  2) Whether or not the game is being made "easier" by this technology, is it contributing to the overall enjoyment of the game?  3) Should we consider allowing technology to make the game easier for the "average" golfer?  (I think that was the crux of Arnold's position vs. USGA)

I will be the first to acknowledge that the strategy of the game is changing because of technology, and that we are seeing longer distances off the tee.  But at the same time, haven't we increased the difficulty level of most courses substantially?  (Maybe not all, but most)  And as far as bunkers and hazards not being in play anymore, aren't there some on TOC that fell in that category long ago through advances in equipment?

Just some thoughts to ponder...  

[David Wigler]

Del,

Your point is well taken.  Can you imagine what might have been shot at The Ocean Course, had it been around in the 40's.  Courses are being made harder.  Maybe Tom Paul or someone like him could enlighten us, but the statistic I would love to see is what is the average round shot at Merion, Pine Valley, or some of the venerable old classics and has that changed in the last fifty years.  Courses that have gone through significant redesigns would be excluded as they addressed the issue by making it harder.  I have no idea as to the truth but I would venture to guess that the average score has dropped by four or five strokes since the 30's and 40's.  In fact, I'll bet it has dropped by at least three strokes since the 70's.

I was just about to hit send and another logical fallacy occurred to me.  If the average score has stayed the same in a vacuum like an exclusive private club, would that not make the argument, since the scores stayed the same while the membership got appreciably older.  Unfortunately, I do not know how statistics could be used to make the point, but I see many holes in the statistic that handicaps have not changed.