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Simon Holt

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Machrihanish Dunes
« on: September 05, 2011, 12:45:44 PM »
The last threads I could find were in '09.  Anyone played recently?  Thoughts?

I played 36 on Saturday.  Brief notes....good and bad.

1) WILD!
2) I got tired of aiming at poles all day
3) You will lose golf balls
4) Serious action in the greens that are nearly all very small
5) Looks like it has been there forever
6) HUGE walks between green and tee.
7) They have switched 9s
8) I want it to survive but my impression is it struggling....I hope I am wrong.
9) 2 greens are completely lost
10) What came first- the marketing strategy and vision for the raw experience or the golf course?  I suspect the results drove the marketing and it was not intended to be quite as 'raw' as it is.
11)  It is a hard walk!!!!! 

I got very bored in the first 18.  Constantly looking for balls...sick of the same blind drive at a pole on every hole.

Second 18 I really enjoyed and the greens are good fun.  You rarely can go directly at a pin but there are numerous options with sideboards and backboards galore.  I am a reasonable putter but the others in the group less so- they hated the greens.

I asked how many rounds they have done this year and no one could give me an answer. 

Unfortunately the experience was all a bit of a shambles.  Having said that there are numerous minor things that mounted up to give that impression.  If they could make those easy changes it might have chance.  Changes to the course will obviously be very difficult given the restrictions.

Would anyone else like to share?

S
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 01:17:46 PM »
Simon - I have only seen pictures but it was something I thought was unlikely to work. I still worry that some of these courses will not be hugely popular and as I continually say we must be careful with the GCA opinion, it is a very minor one, thats not to say some minimal golf courses cant be very good but location, fairness and condition will play a massive role in most minds and pockets.

Sometimes you must change landscapes to make them work for golf and with the restrictions this site had perhaps it made it a bridge too far. The ultimate proof is number of rounds really but best of luck and I hope I am miles out. I have seen a few of these modern minimal wild greeners at TCC and plenty have said they dont enjoy the 3 putting and wont go back. People like trees.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Niall C

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2011, 01:46:02 PM »
Adrian

I think if you go to a links, you know what you're getting and don't really expect trees. Links is a bit of a marmite experience and those that go for it tend to really go for it. That said, given the general travel distances/cost of a round type equation, I'm not surprised its struggling a bit. I would like to think that SNH would relent a little bit and work with the owners to deal with some of the kinks, such as the numerous blind shots that Simon refers to, or letting them cut back the rough a little more. You have got to think that following the Trumpland disaster that SNH would want there poster boy type golf development to succeed. Its got to be in their interests too, otherwise the next developer to at developing linksland will simply employ the same tactics as Donald.

Simon,

When you say two of the greens have been lost, do you mean they have been lost to disease or are you just couldn't find them amongst all the tall grass ? Joking obviously, but what was the issue ?

Given your comments on the number of blind drives, I've got to wonder why the long wlks from green to tee. Obviously not to get the optimum tee position for the fairway, no ?

Niall

ps good to hear your playing again

Frank Pont

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 01:59:50 PM »
I walked Mach Dunes earlier this year in gale force winds and heavy rain sheltering befind an umbrella, so all my observations have to be placed with those boundary conditions. There are two key problems with the golf course in my view.

First the routing. The main problem is the fact that they decided to go for two loops of 9 holes, instead of one loop of 18. This necessitated long holes to make the track back and forth on the second nine loop. It also is related with the second issue which is that this site deserved 5-6 world class par 3 holes, but in the end got only 3 par 3 holes, 1 of which is OK (15), one is good (3) and one is great (14). I did like the half holes like (13),(5) and (7), but in the end the course lacks a bit of variety and stickiness.

Second the greens. Here the issue is the fact that for me it was to obvious that the greens had been hand made rather than draped on the landscape, and therefore looked rather unnatural in the surrounding landscape. Having just played Machrihanish, which greens are also wild, but do fit in the surrounding landscape, brought that point home.
 
Overall it’s still a good golf course in a fantastic setting, trying to operate in the minimalist way I really like, but one can only wonder how much better it could have been if a few key things would have been done different

Given the number of players is so low (less than 20 per day the days we were there, which is pretty bad for high season) I concur that the economics of the place must hurt.

BTW I stayed in Ugadale appartments, which must qualify as the best deal in Scotland, 2B2B 5 star accomodation next to the Machrihanish clubhouse, plus breakfast for 4 guys for 140 pounds a night (or 35 pounds per person!) plus 50% discount on the Mach Dunes greenfee. (check out their website)

I do hope they pull through and keep improving the course gradually, it sure makes my membership of Machrihanish even more valuable
than it already is....

Simon Holt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 02:24:45 PM »
The deal was fantastic for us too.  £89 per person per night with all the golf you could handle at the Dunes.  As Adrian always points out- deals are all fine and well but when there are bills to be paid I cant see where it all adds up.

Adrian- any idea of the cost of maintaining it?  They told me they had 7 greenkeepers- they have a tiny 'Golf House' that does little or nothing in the way of food.  They did charge us £110 for soup and sandwiches for 8 of us though...ouch.

Niall-

the grasses on a couple of the greens are shot to pieces.  One green in particular, 14 (they have changed the 9s since Frank's visit) is an absolute mess.  All mud and littered with inserted grass circles which they have obviously tried to transplant from elsewhere.  I have never seen a green in such bad condition.

If they could soften a few of the fairways and dunes in front of tees then it would improve the course ten fold IMHO.  What is now the back 9 is more enjoyable because you have a rough idea of where you are going.  You can even see the flag on some holes! :o

The long walks are a mystery to me.  The tees are so small you would think they could put them anywhere.  And it is not like they are worried about having a blind shot.....

There are some good holes out there; with a little more freedom they could have created something really special.  Great concept might not equal great business.  I cant help feeling that Adrian is bang on.

S

2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

James Boon

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2011, 02:36:34 PM »
Simon,

How much of the rough nature of the course is concept, and how much is necessity? I always thought that it was a case of finding a great set of dunes but that wildlife preservation measures stopped pretty much anything more than mowing a few greens and fairways, which pretty much led to the rough nature of the course?

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2011, 02:48:06 PM »
Is 7 greenkeepers not quite a lot for a course that is oerating on a minimal basis. I could be way off but I think I'm right in saying that Lossie operates with less and thats for two courses, or am I getting my figures wrong again ?

Frank

When you say the greens didn't quite fit in or drape over the landscape was that maybe just because you were looking at it a bit closer than maybe you would an exisitng older course ? Thinking about the old course, I recall some of the greens being obviously manmde, at least to this unprofessional eye. I'm also assuming that there was quite a harsh transition from green to surround given that they can't cut as close as they want. would that make the shaping stand out a bit more ?

Niall

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2011, 03:16:34 PM »
7 is quite a lot of greenkeepers for a UK 18 holer, I would say 5 is average, the small clubhouse is a good idea really,  rarely can you make much cash from that and with it you have less energy costs etc. I am guessing 1 admin, so about 11 staff, that must be £200,000 pa plus fuel costs and equipment, repairs and renewals, leases, rates, rents etc marketting this cant be run for much less than £500,000. 20 rounds per day is 7000 rounds so the PPR is £36 (£6 lost to the VAT thief) that is about twice national average. I assume there are no members. I am just guessing it might be £400,000 but equally they might have more in the backroom. They have spent a lot on getting their nasme out there, they have done a great job too, good jobs are not cheap, I have seen a lot of full page ads and some heavy emailing programmes and promotions.

A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 03:23:19 PM »
Most of the marketing comes from Southworth HQ in Boston, so it probably isn't on the MD wage bill directly (although I imagine the advertising is).

The other issue re. Mach Dunes is that there has been a lot of Scottish Executive support for the project as a catalyst for the regeneration of Kintyre. Whether that has taken the form of cold, hard cash, I couldn't say.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 03:25:40 PM »
I'm assuming this is a different course/operation than the Machriharnish club that OTM did?

This is the course that DMK did?

Its hard to find good info on the difference between the two.

Kalen

Fred Gray

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 03:57:13 PM »
Simon,

Was it a hard walk for you or your members?

If it is a hard walk for you and your 150+ rounds walked a year then no one would enjoy it.

I am sad to hear about its struggles, I have wanted to play it and want the Dunes to thrive.

Fred

Chris DeNigris

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2011, 10:41:40 PM »
I played it Sep 2009 and loved it. Perfect day with only a 1 club wind so the conditions definitely made the course more playable. I thoroughly enjoyed the wild, rugged feel and didn't mind the numerous blind shots....but then again they don't bug me as much as a lot of folks who need to see their tee shots bounce. We had a caddy so there wasn't a lot of mystery about where to aim. Strangely I didn't find the walk too bad. I had read about how long the green to tee walks were because of the routing challenges but they didn't seem excessive or particularly strenuous. Maybe the walk was more agreeable because the setting was so spectacular and the weather and golf was so enjoyable that day.

The architecture might not be Doak 8 great but it's not bad....with only one play and very few photos of the course it's tough to really remember a lot of specifics but there are several really good holes and not any bad holes that come to mind. The short 4 on the original back side has been discussed and is fantastic as is a monster of a 4 on the orig front (number 8 I think).

The greens are a real strength- typical Kidd but very puttable and fun at the speeds that we played them.

Long term the course will never be a Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns- from a marketing or financial aspect. Campelltown is just too remote to attract that volume of play.  But as one who has played all three only once, Mach Dunes is the one that I most want to play again...and it's not really that close.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2011, 12:24:54 PM »
Machrihanish Dunes could AND SHOULD be soooo much more.  While the environmental constraints were daunting, as some discerning posters have highlighted, minor tweaks could still yield an excellent course, though somewhat '"wild' in presentation.

As I've felt from the first moments I spent wallking the ground, there is some super golf there, but a quality caddie program, combined with some tweaking(which let's face it, most projects, especially one with this environmental shackling, would involve) would offer a wonderful "old school" links experience.

The region, while remote, has enough qualities there to make it financially as a golf destination. A TITANIC opportunity was missed at the outset, due to the oversights mentioned above. You never have a better time to develop and create a postive perception, or sustained buzz about a place...than at the outset...PROVIDED the operators get it right on the front end. A few warts can be tolerated, but not if they form an overall, negative vibe that all is not well or worse!

Sometimes owners recognize where they stumbled and quickly make the required adjustments to correct mistakes. Other times they hang on to stubborn thinking and economic excuse-making, which generally leads to a slow, but steady financial bloodletting. That Mull of Kintyre is special, and Machrihanish Old and the dastardly delightful Dunaverty links, coupled with a primitive, but properly presented Mach Dunes, would be worthy of any golfer's time and money.

Let's hope some sound decisions are made to right the pull-cart before it's too late! 

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Niall C

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 12:57:22 PM »
Most of the marketing comes from Southworth HQ in Boston, so it probably isn't on the MD wage bill directly (although I imagine the advertising is).

The other issue re. Mach Dunes is that there has been a lot of Scottish Executive support for the project as a catalyst for the regeneration of Kintyre. Whether that has taken the form of cold, hard cash, I couldn't say.

Adam/Adrian

I deal a bit with Scottish enterprise through their various subsidiaries and the type of help they are offering includes marketing and advertising. Not sure if that just means signing the cheque or whether it means being more involved in the campaign.

Kalen

Aside from the confusion caused by both courses having Machrihanish in the title, is it really so difficult to find out about both courses and differentiating who was involved and where ?

Kris

Without wishing to start up an old argument, what kind of caddy programme they have would be neither here nor there as they are clearly looking to get a large part of there custom from the home market which barely, if at all, uses caddies. If resident golfers ie UK golfers, have to work hard just to figure the way round a course then its fundamentally flawed. Flawed that is in terms of its target market.

Niall

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 07:21:49 PM »
Nial,

With all respect, what are you talking about? NO remote overseas links golf destination, built recently in the U.K., has a prayer without the American golf visitor. If you don't believe that, nothing more needs to be said. I recall Brian Keating( the original visionary for MD, who I spent time with and like) making a great effort to put a good spin on the toxic plummet, when it began to spill out from the U.S., speaking about the project's intent to draw heavily on non-American players from Europe and elsewhere for the course. How's that one working out for them? He's been rendered a small player in the endeavor, which is a shame, as he had the major vision for it and drove it to reality.

The Scottish government certainly has provided some significant money for that project. Advertising and marketing funding to be sure. In fact, I helped put together and stuff envelopes, with an employee there, of early promotional material that was going out to tour operators and travel companies, when I was over in 2008. If the rest is right, it's money well spent.

There was also an investment funding-match scheme, with the Scottish government matching a portion of what the private investors put forward. I don't know the exact scope or time-frame of that arrangement, but it was certainly in play during the early days of the project.

As to caddies being neither here nor there, did you not read Mr. Holt's (who plays off a solid, traveling 4 handicap) assessment...the man who was JUST THERE and actually played the place TWICE? Very few golfers have played the quality and variety of links courses he has, and his read is DEAD ON!! His first comment on his current group trip to Mach Dunes, complete with plea for proper caddies making a HUGE difference there, is on our original , first-timer to Scotland caddie saga thread. He grew up in Scotland and gets it.

Southworth, an American company, has gradually become a bigger stakeholder in MD and certainly has spent money, but they've neglected some basic essentials. ANY player in the world would have great difficulty on that golf course unaided! The same could be said for many links courses. North Berwick or Dornoch first time, on your own in a three club wind....good luck.

Sadly, as Simon stated, "It was all a bit of a shambles." That is down to internal confusion on properly presenting their golf experience  and their marketing. That part IS flawed. The course, given its parameters from the start, is quite good,  several toasted greens and some tweaks excepted. Blindness alone, so long as it isn't excessive and one isn't unaided, doesn't equate to flawed. Having walked the course extensively and in fact videoed the entire layout, I looked at it again today. With some nominal tee elevation and slight lowering of non-compromising playing areas, without environmentally-invasive grading, most of the "total mystery" shots could be minimized to an acceptable number. Some great couses have blindness; it just shouldn't be excessive.

I find great humor in the "go it alone" responders on this site. I would pay good money to see you folks play the courses mentioned your first time, in the often stiff conditions present, unaided! You'd get your tails kicked. Maybe you find that enjoyable. I've worked with, and seen standing within feet of, some of the finest professional players in the world getting annihilated on easier to play tracks THAT THEY KNEW, in tough conditions. You have greatly inflated ideas of your talents or you can't admit the truth. Take your pick.

The Mull of Kintyre is special. I hope at they tidy up the loose ends at Mach Dunes!

Cheers,
Kris 8)



« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 07:47:32 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Brent Hutto

Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 09:09:11 PM »
Kris,

You have a greatly exaggerated sense of my ability if you think having even the Worlds Best Caddie will help me shoot a score on a tough course in severe conditions!

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2011, 09:53:51 PM »
Brent,

Not at all! I am CERTAIN that working WITH a quality caddie,  one who knows the course, you'd play better than you would without, and I'd bet my life that quality caddie would ease the misery of getting your tushy whipped AND struggling with the conditions and dragging around your own equipment. You can't be serious, unless you're a golf sadist, and I doubt that's the case. Why the stubborn resistance by you guys to the reality of the obvious?

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2011, 03:20:57 AM »
Kris

Traveling to Scotland is not about earning a certain score which is commensurate with one's handicap - or better.  I know many initially have that ambition, but the smart ones let it go and just have fun; the stupid golfers don't return.  I know it seems hard to believe that a guy would want to have a thrash without a guide, but thats life and how to live for a great many.  A course either accommodates the marginal golfer or it doesn't.  It certainly shouldn't take a caddie to make the difference, but if it does for some folks - well they have a right.  I know for me, no amount of quality caddies is going to make me want to play a course again when I think there are issues with aspects of the design or club. 

All that said, if I ever make it back to Machrihanish I will certainly play the Dunes (assuming the price is reasonable) and likely Dunaverty.  As they say; location, location, location and the Dunes has that in spades if one is taking the pilgrimmage next door.

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Simon Holt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2011, 03:48:09 AM »
Simon,

How much of the rough nature of the course is concept, and how much is necessity? I always thought that it was a case of finding a great set of dunes but that wildlife preservation measures stopped pretty much anything more than mowing a few greens and fairways, which pretty much led to the rough nature of the course?

Cheers,

James

Boony,

That was my question really but I have done some digging and they truly did go out to achieve that look.  Fair play to them- like I said, I really enjoyed my second round.  The greens are fun and the setting is really cool.

I was chatting with a fellow GCAer on the phone yesterday and apparently they found 22 green sites that were are areas of land that would require little moving and worked from there.  I would have thought they could have found dozens of suitable sites in that land but given the restrictions that they knew would follow with regard to bunkers and fairways I can see why.

Niall, Kris et al,

Obviously this is going a little off track.  My 2 pennies worth is that at least a forecaddie would make a HUGE difference at this particular course and add to the experience.  It could be a great selling point actually if done correctly.

I probably sound like I am jumping to Kris' defence, which I suppose I am, but he makes a lot of sense with what he writes.  I deal with US golfers day in, day out.  I grew up caddying for US golfers day in, day out, for 10 years at North Berwick, Muirfield and St. Andrews.  There is no better way to understand what a large majority of the travelling US golfer wants than to stand next to him for 4 hours and hear him rave (or moan) about his experience in Scotland.

As is said frequently about our views on courses and golf, we on GCA we are very much in the minority.  On a trip to Scotland, the average US golfer wants (and may not always get);

Good beds
Good water pressure in the showers
Top end courses
Sea views
Doesn't like too many blind shots
Good logo'd merchandise
Knowledgeable caddies
Good food
Lots of whisky
Castles and shops for the non-golfing partner to visit


Its a cliche but its true- I see it everyday.  More to the point I see VERY FEW US golfers without a caddy or at the more remote courses.  Tick those boxes and you are onto a winner; put big ticks in each box and you have it nailed.  Accommodation often comes before the courses believe it or not, especially if the good lady is travelling with. ;D

I am not saying it would be the making of this course or any, but the caddy dynamic is certainly of vital importance to any resort course in Scotland, especially the ones with few or no buggies.

Simon
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2011, 10:21:41 AM »
Sean,

I generally always appreciate and respect your take on this site. Where are my remarks fixated on a score? It's about ENJOYING your round more, playing BETTER, and being more comfortable when going around. Unless someone is: anti-social, introverted or just cheap...why would taking a QUALITY caddie be a negative. I'm sorry, the arguments just fall flat. If one really has a problem with taking caddie, fine, don't take one! But to offer up these comical, defensive reasons NOT to take one, or marginalize their obvious advantages, is laughable.

I guess when folks travel to unfamiliar places, the smart advise would be to just go there blind and figure it out for themselves. No point in asking anyone who has been there, or might have good local knowledge about what might elevate the trip. Would ANYONE in their right mind buy that as the way to go....of course not! So why then, does thrashing about on a course, when you really don't have a clue, on ground you've never seen before, AND for most visiting golfers...they will NEVER play again, now make total sense, if you have the opportunity to have someone help you around(yes,even paying for the experience) ?

We all have played golf many different ways. I've played countless rounds: alone, with strangers,without caddies, you name it. Caddie golf is always going to be a small percentage of the total rounds played, but to not appreciate what a quality caddie round can add to a game, especially over exceptional ground or demanding couses, in often-challenging conditions, well, all that reveals is that one has never experienced or embraced the TREMENDOUS difference that caddie dynamic can make when it is one of quality.

Cheers,
Kris 8)



« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 08:09:25 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 11:22:07 AM »
I read through these posts and found much of the information to be incorrect or not wholly correct. There also seems to be an ignoring of or ignorance of the fact of how much of a role the Scottish National Heritage has in deciding what goes on at Marchrihanish Dunes, no matter how small the modification.

I checked with David Desmith, Director of Marketing at Southworth Development, to get some clarification rather than let innuendo and rumor to fester.

The course is constantly being enhanced.  We have gone -- and are continuing to go -- way beyond the "minor tweaks" that one poster calls for.  It has taken some time to earn the trust of Scottish National Heritage which oversees the property.  Today, they are very much working with us to make the course more playable for the average golfer -- and they (and our paid biologist) are seeing that the rare species of orchids and moths are flourishing under our careful stewardship.

So, they've allowed us to cut back rough substantially -- this has made the course play MUCH easier and has sped up rounds considerably.

Almost a mile of walks between tees and greens has been eliminated with their permission.

We have reduced the height of several mounds, thus eliminating some blind shots.


We have softened several greens, including the first green.

This winter, we will be enlarging the 17th and 8th greens to make them more receptive to approach shots and provide more cupping areas.

The 6th green, which has suffered from sand and salt blowing over the dunes, will be slightly moved.

The 2nd fairway is being enlarged.

And there are many other substantive enhancements that will be made.

Mowing restrictions in the fairways have also been reduced, and we are being allowed to use organic fertilizers on the fairways in some places if/when they are needed.

In short, the habitat is thriving and we are being allowed, slowly but surely, to make important changes to the course and maintenance practices which will make the course even more player-friendly than it is now.

We do have a greenkeeping staff of  7 -- this is because so much of the maintenance has to be done by hand.  It's a financial commitment that we have made in order to preserve the site and offer the best possible conditions.

What's more, Mach Dunes was the first course in the UK to earn GEO certification for its environmental stewardship of the land -- so we are not only continually improving the golf but we are doing so under the strictest supervision possible.  Every course should be this committed to protecting the habitat.

I was at the course a few weeks ago, and it is a far easier course now than it was when it opened.  What's more, with the exception of the 6th and 16th greens which will be redone this winter, the quality of the green surfaces is absolutely superb now.  They are healthy, smooth, and in the latter part of the year we have been able to cut and roll them so that they are running pretty fast, as well.

Another important point -- caddies and forecaddies are always available at Mach Dunes and we encourage people to use them. But they are by no means necessary.  There are directional arrows on every tee and aiming poles wherever there is a blind shot. The real issue is that in the past, when people hit the ball offline on blind tee shots, it often wound up in the rough where they may have had trouble finding it.  Now there is much less rough and this happens much less frequently.  It makes a big difference.

Bottom line -- the course as presented today is earning rave reviews from visitors who are all asked to fill out opinion cards.  The responses we get are uniformly excellent, including one from golf writer Jim Finegan, who said after playing Mach Dunes last month:

"No one -- I repeat no one -- needs finer golf than is presented by Machrihanish Dunes. It is arguably among the top 50 in the world."



In 2012, the two hotels (The Royal in Campbeltown and The Ugadale in Machrihanish) will open, providing top-quality accommodations for many more people than could ever have found such luxurious accommodation in the area before.  This represents a huge investment, both on the part of Southworth and the Scottish and UK governments.  The resort will employ more than 50 people and provide good jobs in an area that really needs them.

In short, the company is firmly committed to this project and to making it the best golf resort in all of Scotland.  Any speculation to the contrary should be brought to an abrupt end.

Will Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 11:54:57 AM »
I visited right when they opened and to be honest was a bit disappointed. I decided to ask DMK about the process of getting the thing built. He was kind enough to let me tape our conversation and use it on Punchbowl Golf. The interviews are long but David was very candid.

http://punchbowlgolf.com/2010/02/mach-dunes-the-dmk-tapes/

http://punchbowlgolf.com/2010/02/mach-dunes-the-dmk-tapes-ii/

http://punchbowlgolf.com/2010/04/mach-dunes-the-dmk-tapes-iii/

I am glad that Mach Dunes is being allowed to make the changes necessary to make this a good course. Hopefully in fifty years it will have evolved into a must play as DMK hoped it would.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2011, 01:56:49 PM »
Kris

Yes I did read Simons post which was why I said any group ie. Simon's who couldn't get round in reasonable fashion because they needed a caddy to keep them hitting the balls into the bundi, then that was a flawed design for the target audience who in my opinion are (very) largely homegrown ie homegrown players don't use caddies which is obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence. That was what I said and what I meant and if you can't interpret that then your head is stuck up your arse. And for once I say that with absolutely no respect as I'm fed up with you telling me I can't read.

Simon,

Interesting to compare NB, Renaissance and Machrihanish or for that matter other B list courses. I know from experience at Gailes and similar clubs that home grown players and continental players play a much more significant part than americans, and very typically they don't want/take caddies. NB along with the Old Course and Dornoch are I suggest in a different category as to number of American visitors. Renaissance on the other hand is US owned with US standards catering for a significant number of american members and other members who are well enough heeled to afford the joining fee/subs and therefore can I imagine take a caddy when they want, although I noticed when we played some of the local members were happy just to carry themselves.

From my viewpoint Machrihanish Dunes is in the same category as Gailes. Anytime I've done the Logan Air day trip from Glasgow, its been all UK golfers.

Niall

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 04:39:05 PM »
Niall,

I can understand your frustraton. Welcome to the club! Read that glittering take posted by Mr. Pioppi, offered by Southworth's Director of Marketing. Balance that against an IMPARTIAL appraisal by Mr. Holt, who was JUST there and played the course!

In your latest response to me you state," ...which is why I said that any group who couldn't get round in reasonable fashion because they need a caddy to keep them hitting balls into the bundi, then that was a flawed design for the target audience....ounce of intelligence." Simon and his group are Scottish and English golfers who, except for Simon, don't take caddies! They had a nightmare time of it as Simon recounted. What's next....they're not representative of "real" native golfers.

Interesting that noted golf writer Jim Finegan, who has traveled and written for decades on golf in Scotland and Ireland, is quoted as saying,"NO one--I repeat no one--needs finer golf than is presented by Machrihanish Dunes. It is arguably among the Top 50 in the world." Quite a statement for a "flawed' design...which is it?

Anthony,

Thanks for posting that.  No one has said significant money hasn't been spent or nothing in the way of improvements have been done at Machrihanish Dunes. I've followed the project there for quite some time and the "blindness" issue seems to continue to vex many players from the comments made by numerous sources. Simon JUST played it, is local(SCOTLAND is home), and his GROUP struggled with it. I'm a HUGE SUPPORTER of what could emerge there at Machrihanish Dunes and the Mull region. I adore the area and have great fondness for the people there. I visited there in the early days to discuss a role on the team there. They had, and continue to have, a GREAT team of greens staff, that works their tails off, under very strict mandates as was mentioned.

Read any of the threads where I've commented on Machrihanish Dunes and the FACT that I'm a huge supporter is present at some point in my responses. I've felt that the project hasn't gotten enough kudos and have stated that on other threads. In my view, given how it was done, with the ultimate in sensitivity for the fragile ecosystems that are present, that project, as an example of responsible, new course construction, is a superb model. That said, where I feel things might not square with reality, I will comment and share my view. Just like anyone else can and should.

I will say that regarding a quality caddie program, that HAS NOT been, and IS NOT, in place at Machrihanish Dunes. No one HAS to take a caddie anywhere, UNLESS it is required. As far as one being needed, that is all down to the individual.

It is not my intent to cause consternation or upset anyone. When folks share their views in a public forum, it's always possible to get some negative reaction to what you comment on. I take that as part of the mix in this meduim. To characterize what has been put forward as innuendo and rumor isn't really accurate, as it has been validated by first-hand accounts, many of which are well beyond the scope of just this small, GCA site sampling.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 05:05:21 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Machrihanish Dunes
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 05:44:58 PM »
Sean,

I generally always appreciate and respect your take on this site. Where are my remarks fixated on a score? It's about ENJOYING your round more, playing BETTER, and being more comfrortable when going around. Unless someone is: anti-social, introverted or just cheap...why would taking a QUALITY caddie be a negative. I'm sorry, the arguments just fall flat. If one really has a problem with taking caddie, fine, don't take one! But to offer up these comical, defensive reasons NOT to take one, or marginalize their obvious advantages, is laughable.

I guess when folks travel to unfamiliar places, the smart advise would be to just go there blind and figure it out for themselves. No point in asking anyone who has been there, or might have good local knowledge about what might elevate the trip. Would ANYONE in their right mind buy that as the way to go....of course not! So why then, does thrashing about on a course, when you really don't have a clue, on ground you've never seen before, AND for most visiting golfers...they will NEVER play again, now make total sense, if you have the opportunity to have someone help you around(yes,even paying for the experience) ?

We all have played golf many different ways. I've played countless rounds: alone, with strangers,without caddies, you name it. Caddie golf is always going to be a small percentage of the total rounds played, but to not appreciate what a quality caddie round can add to a game, especially over exceptional ground or demanding couses, in often-challenging conditions, well, all that reveals is that one has never experienced or embraced the TREMENDOUS difference that caddie dynamic can make when it is one of quality.

Cheers,
Kris 8)

Kris

As it happens I am frugal and a bit anti-social. So you see it doesn't make much sense to go against the grain of these tendencies in hiring a caddie.  Additionally, you already mentioned a big problem with caddies, its a crap shoot and not many quality programmes exist.  A caddie may or not help one score better and have a better time.  That is for each and every golfer to decide for themselves, however, I like "thrashing" around a course because I don't worry about a score or as you put it, playing better, to the point of wanting to spend x Sterling extra over what is usually an already very expensive pastime.  I treat golf as a game and part of that game is having a go.  I fully undertand that some don't enjoy making that leap nor worry about the extra money spent.  I am fine with that.  Some seem to think that having a quality caddie programme at Mach Dunes would be a make or break difference.  Based on plenty of experience in GB&I, I disagree.  Folks will play the courses that appeal to them even if it means they have to drag (gasp!) a trolley around.  For some reason (I don't know what those reasons are), if Mach Dunes is struggling, folks are choosing not to visit for reasons other than a lack of caddies.  My first guess is the course has had very mediocre press compared to other high recent profile openings in Scotland.  Reputation is a hard won prize and it would seem that Mach Dunes didn't get started on the right foot.  The course looks easily interesting enough for me to visit IF I am going to Machrihanish, but its reputation as a ball swallower will not induce me to make a special trip.  Then again, I am frugal and anti-social.

Ciao

Ciao     
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

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