News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« on: October 08, 2011, 09:57:23 PM »
Frustrated by the constancy of ball marks (that bm, not the other kind...) on the putting flats, I came up with this idea:

Get 30 kids, arm them with bm repair tools and the knowledge of how to properly repair them, and send them out on Friday evening at 7:30. Send six groups of five kids each to three greens per group and tell them to repair all of the ball marks. Have the superintendent monitor their progress. If the the groups are successful in doing their 30-45 minutes of work (10 minutes per green, five minutes to walk to the next green), they are given two rounds (or 1 round, it doesn't matter) of walking golf for the coming week.

Why or why won't this plan work?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2011, 10:23:40 PM »
Maybe it would work Ron...but it shouldn't be neccessary.  People need to fix their own ball marks.  This is without question my biggest pet peeve on a golf course.  I can "get" it at a public course...I still don't like it, but I can understand why it happens...but at a private course where the members don't fix their ball marks on THEIR course.  I can't comprehend that mentality.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 10:24:47 PM »
Frustrated by the constancy of ball marks (that bm, not the other kind...) on the putting flats, I came up with this idea:

Get 30 kids, arm them with bm repair tools and the knowledge of how to properly repair them, and send them out on Friday evening at 7:30. Send six groups of five kids each to three greens per group and tell them to repair all of the ball marks. Have the superintendent monitor their progress. If the the groups are successful in doing their 30-45 minutes of work (10 minutes per green, five minutes to walk to the next green), they are given two rounds (or 1 round, it doesn't matter) of walking golf for the coming week.

Why or why won't this plan work?

Reason 1

The superintendant really doesn't want to be there at 7:30 pm on a Friday (no doubt he arrived well before 5 am and may actually have a few kids of his own)

nor babysit and recruit 30 kids

60 rounds a week x 20-30 weeks of the season is a LOT of rounds and creates further burdens on the greens staff


Alternatively, members (or daily feeers) could learn to repair their own marks- an equal amount of time could be spent educating them and enforcing by the golf staff.

Not saying kids shouldn't be involved, just better ways to involve them (and members shouldn't expect them to be the ball mark fixers)Whatever happened to "fix your ballmark and one other"?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 11:51:08 PM »
We train our caddies to repair ball marks that members miss.  Not perfect but it helps.  Then at night or in the am when greens are mowed, our staff follows up.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2011, 03:22:07 AM »
We train our caddies to repair ball marks that members miss.  Not perfect but it helps.  Then at night or in the am when greens are mowed, our staff follows up.
This is the problem, though, isn't it.  You don't expect your members to be responsible.  Until clubs actually take steps to ensure that members fix ball marks how can they expect anyone else to?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2011, 03:30:40 AM »
The best idea I have seen is each tee, fairway and green has nominated members to take care of them.  If a nominated tee, fairway or green needs attention (picking up tees, replacing divots, repairing ball marks) the member nominated for that section of the course is obligated to deal with what he finds that isn't right.  Guys took the job seriously and spent time searching out problems to fix - most impressive.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 03:52:23 AM »
At my first club juniors members used to be allocated a green for pitchmark repairs. In return the juniors got very cheap membership. Also, all the members would remind each other if one forgot to repair a pitch mark. Even today many years later, if I find a divot laying in the fairway I will pick it up and carry it till I find a suitable divot hole to place it in.

Repair your own damage and atleast one other each hole should be the minimum norm for ALL golfers.

Jon
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 08:21:58 AM by Jon Wiggett »

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work! New
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 07:18:26 AM »
I'm in favor of a zero tolerance policy. Any person who is seen not fixing their ball mark is to be lectured in public by appointed curmudgeons.  Of course the super could teach them a lesson by having the greens super firm. That should get 'em bellyaching.  This notion of mollycoddling these inconsiderate A-holes, for fear of losing their business is the root of the problem. It's been a form of rewarding bad behavior, and, it simply does not work.  Psychology works. Warn 'em, and identify the main culprits. You can start looking at the ones that are so obsessed with their score, they can't see anything or anyone else while on the golf course.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 12:56:47 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mike Sweeney

Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 07:57:03 AM »

Repair your onw damage and at least one other each hole should be the minimum norm for ALL golfers.

Jon

This is what I was always taught. You will always forget/not find your mark on a hole or two. This way you cover each other throughout the day.

Bethpage seems to have changed the culture on The Black when they did the renovation, and my last round on The Red was very good too in terms of ball marks in comparison to the old days.

Sev K-H Keil

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2011, 08:34:28 AM »
I thought the reason for the "Gentlemen repair two pitch marks" principle was emphasized bv the work undertaken by the PGA educating golfers about the time it takes for a pitch mark to repair / recover --- if left for ten minutes or longer an unrepaired mark takes 15 days to recover compared to a mark-repaired within five minutes which recovers completely within 24 hours.

So, repairing PMs by a squad of school kids once a day (while a compelling idea) is likely to be too late and will lead to long-term deterioration of the quality of greens...

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2011, 10:48:00 AM »
The last thing we need to do is give golfers another excuse to not care for the course themselves.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2011, 11:08:47 AM »
I've never been a member of a private club, so I can't speak to the politics of public humiliation. I do know, however, that private clubs get one iota of the play that public and resort courses do, so they simply shouldn't have a ball mark problem. I encountered it at a private course this year for the first time in my storied golfing career and it stunned me; to be fair, it was a lower-end private club that could easily be mistaken for a very nice muni, in terms of its overall appearance (clubhouse, aesthetics, practice facilities, course layout).

As for public courses, I'll be honest...you guys are letting me down.

Mac, you are absolved, as you made your "I get it" statement.

Jeff, with all the traffic that public courses get, tossing in 30 walking rounds a week is so minimal that the course wouldn't notice it...it's the equivalent of 1 foursome a day, and you could restrict it to before 8 or after 5. If not the super, who works long hours, one of her/his assistants.

Mark, if caddies rake bunkers, why should repairing ball marks be any different? You're paying for a service that lightens your (the golfer) load. I call it the pussification of the walking golfer!

Sean, public courses don't have members. Alternatively, my plan substitutes brigades for members. By working on the course, the kids gain a sense of ownership and pride that your members-proposal would also demonstrate.

Jon, how did that junior membership plan work out? Also, why don't you carry sand and seed versus a divot? Divots don't grow back.

Adam, I always like your sense of humor.

Mike, Bethpage had a scandal the last 4-8 years where guys were golfing the course on benefits while they were supposed to be working...they put an end to it, play is down to a suitable level and the course has improved its conditioning. The locals told me all about it this July.

Sev, the program is not supposed to be a replacement for reparation, but a supplementary act. Put up all the signs you want, hand out all the free tools you please, the same guys will always repair (or not) their pitch marks. ALSO, I guarantee you that both you and I have repaired old pitch marks (older than the limits you provided) and they looked a damned site better than before. I've read all that crap about "if left for..." and we're not discussing oxygen to the brain. There is no ball mark, no matter how old, that cannot be repaired.

Clint, not an excuse, a supplement. Don't publicize it, although even if you do, most golfers would respond "what's a pitch mark?" and look for the cart girl.



Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2011, 01:09:22 PM »
Ronald,

the program worked well. It was based on the understanding that a group of juniors were requested to look after a green. In my case it was the 4th green along with three other juniors. It meant that when the opportunity arose you would spend 10 or 15 minutes repairing. You were always aware of repairing pitchmarks even to the point of politely reminding the adult members on the few occasion that one of them might forget.

As for divots, they will re-root if pressed home properly and not flipped by birds or mowing. Carrying sand and seed is firstly not so practical if you are carrying your club. More expensive than divot replacement and keep the place more tidy.

Golfers should repair the damage they cause regardless of the standard of the course they are playing. I am against the idea that because a player pays large fees it relinquishes him or her from this responsibility. Only people with no manners and too much money think it does :-X

Jon
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 01:19:25 PM by Jon Wiggett »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2011, 01:24:43 PM »
I agree with your final paragraph. I do not excuse folks from their responsibilities. My thinking is, if golfers who don't repair stuff play a course with properly-repaired divots and pitch marks, they might just comment "why are things so nice here?" and have a compatriot remark "because people fix their divots and pitch marks." At that point, the heavens might open and the light switch turn on.

Are you saying that divots will reroot under dry conditions? It seems impossible to me.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2011, 01:39:37 PM »
Ronald,

if it is too dry for a well pressed in divot to re-root then your sand/seed mix will not germinate either. I did not want to suggest you were excusing the poor ettiquette of others.

Jon

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2011, 01:45:24 PM »
Good point.

No such suggestion was ever imagined by this party.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tim Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2011, 01:58:55 PM »
Hamilton Golf Course used to have a program in place, not sure if it still exists, but locker sections were each responsible for a certain green. The thinking was that members would focus on their green when playing a round. Not sure how successful it was but the program seems good to me.

Depending on the number of members, you have many more sets of eyes looking out for bm on all the greens.


Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2011, 02:12:51 PM »
My thinking is, adults are a lost cause: either they already get it or they never will. If we focus on kids, there is a chance to ingrain proper care and maintenance in them.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tell Me Why The BM Repair Squad Plan Won't Work!
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2011, 02:45:41 PM »
Mark; sorry for the delay.  Actually, we expect members to repair marks and constantly remind them.  As greens chair< I instituted an "adopt a hole" program where each member is assigned a hole where he or she is supposed to repair every mark when playing that hole.  Its just that some people don'tsee too well, some are careless, and unfortunately some don't care.  So we put mutiple programs in place; belts and suspenders so to speak.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back