[Mark Saltzman]

Other photo tours from this trip:

Sanctuary, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48714.0.html
Prairie Club (Dunes), NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48734.0.html
Prairie Club (Pines), NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49022.0.html
Awarii Dunes, NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48784.0.html
Wild Horse, NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48807.0.html
Golf Club at Bear Dance, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48903.0.html
Coeur D'Alene Resort, ID: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48906.0.html
Wine Valley, WA: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48960.0.html
Ballyneal G&HC, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49112.0.html
Palouse Ridge, WA: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49215.0.html
The Members Club at Aldarra, WA: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49335.0.html

Upcoming:
Sahalee CC, WA
Old Works, MT




Taken from Kalen Braley's earlier review of the Idaho Club (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41305.0.html): The Idaho Club is a new Jack Nicklaus course in the Pacific Northwest near the northern Washington/Idaho border. (http://www.theidahoclub.com/index.cfm). It’s located just outside of Sandpoint, ID which is 75 minutes from downtown Spokane, WA. The course meanders over a gorgeous piece of property that butts up to a low mountain range to the north and the Pack River to the south with Lake Pend Oreille just beyond that. Originally an 18 hole public course known as Hidden Lakes GC, the updated routing uses a new piece of land on the other side of the highway. While I'm not as travelled as many of you, this is hands down one of the most drop-dead stunner courses I've ever played.  That being said, its also one of the most difficult courses I've played but given its setting I didn't mind one bit.


There are very few times that I have ever played golf and not enjoyed myself, but such was the case at The Idaho Club.  The course is as penal as it gets with hazards down both sides of many holes.  The fairways, in general, are wide enough, but there is no buffer between fairway and hazard.  If you're on your game and have the blinders on, there is plenty of room to miss a shot a bit and still have a reasonable chance of recovery (and as I found out our own Mr. Ferlicca shot an unbelievable 69 from the tips!).  If you're not playing well, you stand on most tees saying "do I really have to hit this shot? It's just gonna be another lost ball and three bucks down the drain."

The golf course is pure penal design.  Bunkers and hazards are there to penalize and challenging them brings no reward.

Before my round I had a brief conversation with the pro that sums up the golf course pretty well.  

Me: Idaho Club has a reputation as being pretty tough. Would you agree?

Pro: Yeah it's really hard.  Make  sure you bring plenty of balls.

Me: I'm a 4 index and I've been playing well lately, I think I've got enough.

Pro: Well, I played yesterday and I lost 7 balls on the front 9, so you should probably bring a couple extra.

Me: I gotta go grab something from my trunk...!


On to the course:






Hole 1: Par 4, 412 Yards

A remarkably difficult hole that would set the tone for the entire course.  The fairway is not narrow, but it is flanked by water left and marsh right.  Perhaps a little much for the first shot of the day?




After a successful tee shot, the player is left with a mid-iron approach to a peninsula green. There is no bailout and no room to miss short of the green.  Perhaps a little much for the first approach of the day?










Hole 2: Par 3, 161 Yards

The second is almost the Nicklaus template - a replica of the 12th at Augusta with a diagonal green, a bunker short-right and a fronting water hazard.  The green is very long and narrow.  Unfortunate placement of the cart path.






Hole 3: Par 4, 408 Yards

The tee shot on the third, just like the one on the first, is to a fairway that is wide enough but where there is no bailout with hazard left and right.




The approach to third plays quite uphill to the most interesting green on the course.  The green is protected by a false-front on the left and deep bunkers on the right (as well as more water hazard just short of the bunkers).






From just short of the green one can see two large ridges, one that creates a shelf on left/back portion of the green and one that separates the front of the green from the back.  What is difficult to appreciate is the severity of the slope on the back/right portion of the green.

[Andy Troeger]

Mark,
I had to chuckle at some of your comments--the course is really hard. I wonder if perhaps I'd have liked the course better, however, if #1 fell later in the round. It does set the table from the rest of the course, but I still think its one of the hardest driving holes on the course and offers the chance to get off to a really tough start. Even the third seems much easier because at least its a straight hole instead of a curving hole with the lake left and junk right.

I think the course has a few really good individual holes that you'll get to shortly (mostly on the other side of the road), but its just too dang hard overall. I think at one point I found a yellow ball and played it for a couple holes to save the ones in my bag--it didn't last long anyway. I'm surprised the rating/slope isn't even higher.

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

Looks like you're off to a fine start.  The 1st hole is indeed a ball buster, I was flabbergasted how anyone could make a 1st hole right out of the box like that.

While it is extremely tough, its also one of the most gorgeous courses I've played.  I've never had a more scenic butt whipping in my life!! 

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

Looks like you're off to a fine start.  The 1st hole is indeed a ball buster, I was flabbergasted how anyone could make a 1st hole right out of the box like that.

While it is extremely tough, its also one of the most gorgeous courses I've played.  I've never had a more scenic butt whipping in my life!! 

Kalen,

I played the first hole from the tips.  Reasonably good tee shot down the right left my 190 yards in.  Really good hybrid left me a makeable birdie putt.  Missed, made par.  Made par on 2 also.  Pretty good, right?

Well, on my way to the 8th tee I grabbed my 7th ball of the round out of my bag.

Not to sound cocky, but I sure I am better than the average golfer who plays The Idaho Club.  Pretty or not, I can't see too many people having a good time there, nor could I see many return visitors.

"Honey, I am going for a three-day weekend with some buddies to The Idaho Club, be sure to pick me up a few of those 18-packs of those cheap, crappy balls."

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

I actually wouldn't disagree with anything you've said.  Its a brute of a course that I would in no way enjoy playing time and time again as a true home course.  I can't imagine the private model is going to work in the long term out there.

But once or twice per year, especially since the course has a local public rate, can be lots of good fun for just playing it for what it is...
Its the kind of course to see how well you can stand up to challenging shot after challenging shot, and just leave the pencil and scorecard back at the clubhouse.  

P.S.  I shot about 120 something, but yes I stopped keeping strict track after the front 9!! I have some photos too that I can compliment this thread with if you like.

Kalen

[Peter Ferlicca]

I had the best round of golf I have ever played in my life here for some odd reason.  I just played Rock Creek Cattle Company the day before and probably shot something like a 81, (didn't strike it well at all, probably being in the car for 5 hours before we got there.)  So then the next morning we left from Missioula, MT on our way to Sandpoint, probably another 2 to 3 hour drive, very scenic.  Got out of the car, checked into the temporary golf shop and then headed to the range.  The only other person on the range was the assistant pro who played his golf at Boise State, he wanted to join us for a round.  For some odd reason everything just clicked this day, maybe because the pro there was bragging like crazy about how good he was, it made me try a little harder.  Trust me I am nothing special at all, playing ability wise, John Kirk can attest that.  I birdied 5, put it to 10 feet on 7 made a birdie, then birdied 10, and then was 2 inches away from making an albatross after hitting the pin from 240 out on number 12 for a tap in eagle, throw in a couple of bogeys and it adds up to a 69.  All the par 5's are pretty reacheable if you hit it straight and at least 280 off the tee.  

Regarding the course, it is absolutely beautiful.  I do agree though this would not be a place you would want to be a member, and go play 3 or 4 times a week.  Your cost of golf balls would be higher than your dues payment.  The last 5 holes are ridiculously hard with water EVERYWHERE, unless you are in the zone you could lose about 10 golf balls just on those holes.  
Oh and we saw a moose taking a swim in the river right next to 18 green, pretty cool way to end the round.  

[Andy Troeger]

In looking at the card, its shorter than I remember. For the longer hitter, those par fives tempt you into hitting driver, which often leads to big numbers. If I'd have hit 4-irons off those tees and played for position that might have helped significantly. From memory, I think Jim F. actually did pretty well for quite awhile before the last few holes got him, but if you're not on its a long day. I also wonder if its a course that's perhaps a little more friendly on repeat play when you learn that you can actually miss it in a few spots (not many!). Given the comment from the pro, probably not so much. With all the forced carries, it wouldn't be much fun even for a short and straight type of golfer. The wayward driver finds lots of trouble as well.

Granted, I tried to hit 4-iron off #8 to play for position, but couldn't make the carry with that club and still was toast. Thankfully I didn't try to keep score, but I birdied #10!

As Peter's round shows, you can still score if you hit fairways and greens. Its "fair" enough in that sense. There's just no recovery from poor shots.

[Kalen Braley]

Peter,

That's quite the round. Although 280 and straight is certainly a shot I don't have in my bag!   

The last 5 holes are indeed tough, but its nice that you get a bit of a break on 12 and 13 before playing them.

[Andy Troeger]

Its ironic, Kalen, that you call #12 a break. Its got a pond right on the green and I think I still made 7!  If the course had a bunch of holes like #13 it might be really good--its a breather for Idaho Club but 470 from the tips and a solid 420 par four from our tees!

[Kalen Braley]

Thats the thing Andy,

I didn't call it easy, it was just a break from the tightness of the other holes.  But alas it still requires good shots, but at least those two holes have places you can miss.  Go check out the aerial on google maps, you can see what I'm talking about!!

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 4: Par 3, 142 Yards

I enjoyed the 4th, though I think it would be better if a few trees were removed from the right side.  Interestingly, the longer the tee played, the better the angle of approach into the green.  The back tees play straight up the throat, while the front tees must carry the fronting bunker.

Back Tee - trees encroach on right.  Not sure if this was planned.






Middle Tee




Forward Tee




The green is plain wicked.  Very narrow with a lot of internal contouring as well as a general back to front slope.






Hole 5: Par 5, 504 Yards

It started to absolutely pour when I got to the 5th tee, ruining pictures of what should be a stunning golf hole.  The tee shot appears very narrow but there is a lot of room to miss right past the trees.  I think the hole would be better without that right bunker as left is dead.




From about 250 yards out.  An interesting lay-up with water left.  Challenge the water for a clear view of the green or bail right and leave a blind approach over the rock outcropping.




Approach from 125 on left side of fairway




Approach from 100 in centre of fairway




From behind

[Mac Plumart]

I hear y'all that this course is difficult.

But DAMN it looks good!!!

Thanks again, Mark, for a great photo tour.

[Kalen Braley]

more pics of #5:

[Andy Troeger]

I think the 4th is a cool little hole. Its an interesting one in that the bail out area is behind the hole with a relatively simple chip. Making an aggressive play toward the green is rather vexing, and I hit an awful shot that ended up between the water and the bunker.

The 5th is intimidating on first glance. This one specifically is one that I would play conservatively if given another opportunity--I wouldn't get home in two very often even with the best of drives.

Mac,
Interesting comment. The course, especially from #3-11 is absolutely stunning and the holes themselves are well conceived in that stretch. Its just really hard. I also like #13. The finishing stretch is flattish with water everywhere (similar to #1) and that isn't quite so appealing to me, but I'd still like to figure out a way to get back even though the course isn't really on the way to anything.

[Mac Plumart]

Is it too hard to have fun?

Can you play up a tee (or three) and manage it?

[Mark Saltzman]

Is it too hard to have fun?

Can you play up a tee (or three) and manage it?

Mac,

The course is not long (except perhaps from the tips) and distance is not really the issue.  I suppose you could move up a couple of sets and hit 5-irons off every tee, but to me, that would be no fun.

I, like Rich Choi wrote in the Awarii Dunes thread, can't stand it where every poor shot is a lost ball.  If you're spraying it, you will lose a ton of balls, period.  If you can have fun while doing this, then you will (or could) enjoy TIC.

The unusual thing is that like Andy, I went to get back to TIC.  Not everyday, but someday.  I want to see if I'm playing well how I would fare, though I somehow think I'd pressure myself into choking and have another unenjoyable round.

[Mac Plumart]

I, like Rich Choi wrote in the Awarii Dunes thread, can't stand it where every poor shot is a lost ball.  If you're spraying it, you will lose a ton of balls, period.  If you can have fun while doing this, then you will (or could) enjoy TIC.

That stinks!!!  Losing balls all the time is no fun.  Darn it.  The places look great.

[Mark Saltzman]

That stinks!!!  Losing balls all the time is no fun.  Darn it.  The places look great.

Mac,

I would still highly recommend seeing the course if you are ever in the area (though I would not travel just to see it).  No doubt it is a controversial course because of its difficulty, but there is no better way to form an opinion about a controversial course than to actually see it.

Maybe it's just me, but I try very hard to see controversial courses.  Sahalee was a priority for me, as was AAC. 

[Kalen Braley]

The thing about this course is, you don't even have to be spraying it to lose balls. I found that even marginal shots can and do get punished pretty badly as well

To boot, the one thing that hasn't been talked about much is the number of forced carries on this course.  There is one on just about every hole and some of them are very long like #s 7-10.  And on every one of those forced carries... not only can you not miss short, but you also can't miss left or right either. 

I don't see how a handicapper of 18+ can even finish this course legally.  They would literally get stuck on several tee shots or just have a bunch of Xs on thier card and take drops across the carries.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 6: Par 4, 398 Yards

Another really pretty and difficult hole.  The fairway is once again wide enough but requires a forced carry to reach the fairway, and lost balls if you go left or right.  The elevated tee makes the chance of a lost ball more likely (and this was the hole I actually stood on the tee for a couple of minutes debating whether or not I wanted to bother losing another ball... I decided to hit... after two lost balls off the tee it was time to move on).




If one is able to find the fairway, the approach is quite interesting.  Bunkers short-right and long-left give this approach a strong nader feeling.  Unfortunately, the fairway bunker well short of the green discourages shots to be run onto the green.







Hole 7: Par 3, 201 Yards

Remember the Nicklaus template P3 I mentioned on no. 4? Well, here's another one, but this one is a heckuvalot longer.  All carry with only a bailout short-left (like that helps a righty), the shot is to a diagonal green with hazard short and a bunker short-right.  Another decision about whether or not to play the hole.  I did.  I hit it well.  Not well enough.  Rinse, repeat.  Walk to next tee.

Back Tee (236 Yards)




Middle Tee (200 Yards)




Forward Tee





And there's a small rock outcropping long of the green just in case you decide not to mess with the hazard and try to blow it out over the green.

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

Great writeup so far.  Your doing an excellent job showing both the beauty and the beast that is the Idaho club.

A few comments, I really liked that green complex on #6.  A lot of different ways to approach that hole. And the running shot does work, I played one.  This was one of the few holes I didn't take a big score on, I double bogeyed it!   

And #7 was waaaaayyyyyy too small of a green to be trying to hit from that long of a distance.  There really was nowhere to bailout on that hole.

P.S.  Can you please explain what you mean when you use the word "nader"?  I've only heard of Ralph Nader, the consumer advocate and quasi politician.  I'm very confused because even the urban dictionary doesn't have anything that helps me understand your usage of the word! 

[Frank M]

Mark,

Great writeup so far.  Your doing an excellent job showing both the beauty and the beast that is the Idaho club.

A few comments, I really liked that green complex on #6.  A lot of different ways to approach that hole. And the running shot does work, I played one.  This was one of the few holes I didn't take a big score on, I double bogeyed it!   

And #7 was waaaaayyyyyy too small of a green to be trying to hit from that long of a distance.  There really was nowhere to bailout on that hole.

P.S.  Can you please explain what you mean when you use the word "nader"?  I've only heard of Ralph Nader, the consumer advocate and quasi politician.  I'm very confused because even the urban dictionary doesn't have anything that helps me understand your usage of the word! 

+1. After reading your repeated use of the word "nader", I still have no clue what you are referring to.

[Mark Saltzman]

Kalen, Frank.

Nader. Redan.

A nader is a reverse-redan - a green with the characteristics of a redan green but with the kicker short-left instead of short-right, and the bunkers short-right and long-left, instead of short-left and long-right.

I use the term loosely and probably not within the technical definition (if there is one), but I hope that sheds some light on what I mean.

[Frank M]

Kalen, Frank.

Nader. Redan.

A nader is a reverse-redan - a green with the characteristics of a redan green but with the kicker short-left instead of short-right, and the bunkers short-right and long-left, instead of short-left and long-right.

I use the term loosely and probably not within the technical definition (if there is one), but I hope that sheds some light on what I mean.

A reverse redan....gotcha.

[John Kirk]

I had the best round of golf I have ever played in my life here for some odd reason.  I just played Rock Creek Cattle Company the day before and probably shot something like a 81, (didn't strike it well at all, probably being in the car for 5 hours before we got there.)  So then the next morning we left from Missioula, MT on our way to Sandpoint, probably another 2 to 3 hour drive, very scenic.  Got out of the car, checked into the temporary golf shop and then headed to the range.  The only other person on the range was the assistant pro who played his golf at Boise State, he wanted to join us for a round.  For some odd reason everything just clicked this day, maybe because the pro there was bragging like crazy about how good he was, it made me try a little harder.  Trust me I am nothing special at all, playing ability wise, John Kirk can attest that.  I birdied 5, put it to 10 feet on 7 made a birdie, then birdied 10, and then was 2 inches away from making an albatross after hitting the pin from 240 out on number 12 for a tap in eagle, throw in a couple of bogeys and it adds up to a 69.  All the par 5's are pretty reacheable if you hit it straight and at least 280 off the tee.  

Regarding the course, it is absolutely beautiful.  I do agree though this would not be a place you would want to be a member, and go play 3 or 4 times a week.  Your cost of golf balls would be higher than your dues payment.  The last 5 holes are ridiculously hard with water EVERYWHERE, unless you are in the zone you could lose about 10 golf balls just on those holes.  
Oh and we saw a moose taking a swim in the river right next to 18 green, pretty cool way to end the round.  

Pete is big and strong, with a lot of lag in his swing.  If he's on he can pound it.  Even us 2 and 3 handicappers can have great days, when the stars are aligned. 

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