More Courting Fate--Split Fairways

[Doug Wright]

In thinking about "Courting Fate" re potentially reachable par 4s and 5s etc on the other thread, I also got to thinking about split fairways (i.e., distinct fairways separated by barrancas, agua or other ugly things), where you have an option of choosing one or the other with (hopefully) one side being higher risk/reward than the other. I've only played a few. Castle Pines GC #3 and Talking Stick North #12 come to mind. I like these holes in concept because they can really make you think, which is the essence of strategy. For example, I like Castle Pines GC #3 (which you never see on TV) because the right side fairway is narrower with more trouble but gives you a better, open angle to the narrow green; the wider, more forgiving left side fairway presents a bunker and  a sideways view of the green. The second shot distances are about the same from either side. Re Talking Stick North #12, the left side fairway presents a tempting direct route but it is quite narrow with an OB boundary hard by the left; the right side is very wide and presents a longer second shot option.  Although it's visually a very attractive hole and a great use of the land, I don't like Talking Stick North #12 as much as the Castle Pines hole because the left side fairway is really too narrow (at least for me), and a decent drive does not leave you with too long a shot or that difficult an alternative angle. Ie, for me, TS North #12 is less of a "Hmm, what should I do?" hole than Castle Pines #3 because I know what fate likely awaits me if I attempt to go left at TS North. [On the other hand, when I play TS North #12 later this winter, I'm gonna go for the left side anyway and say "What the hell, GCA made me do it!"]  

Comments? Other split fairway holes of note (I'm sure there are many)? Which ones work or don't work for you, and why?

[APBernstein]

Split fairways, when properly executed, are a great feature in architecture.  However, the simple fact that a hole has a split fairway guarantees it nothing.

The 16th at Inniscrone is an interesting example.  The alternate fairway (actually, I might have been fooled as to whcih was actually primary) which sits above and to the right of the main fairway offers little advantage.  While playing the course, I must have hit at least a dozen shots from different positions and still didn't figure the hole out.  While that mystery sounds good in theory, I just couldn't figure out what the alternate fairway was to be used.

Gil Hanse used to post periodically on this site, and I wish he still did.  It is these times when it is invaluable to consult the architect as to his intentions on certain holes.

One neat feature of the 16th, though is where the alternate fairway parallels the green to the right.  Separating the two is a steep 5 foot drop in elevation covered in scraggly, heavy rough.

[Tim_Weiman]

Doug,

Pete Dye built two split fairways at Fowler's Mill here in Cleveland (#9 and #12).  Both work pretty well playing with your head, especially on days when you are not driving the ball confidently.  Also, both holes are relatively short four fours where you can see the green and pin placement from the tee, which adds to the decision making process, i.e., the desire to set up the preferred angle for your approach shot.

One split fairway I'd like to play is #1 at Mike DeVries' Kingsley Club.  This is a dramatic opening hole with a low and apparently safer road on the left side and higher, seemingly more risky right side.  I'd be very curious to hear an assessment of the relative risk and reward of going either way from people who have played the hole several times.

Another noteworthy split fairway Par 5 is #18 at Yale, one of the boldest holes you will ever play.  Going down the lower right side might be safer (I don't know), but the high road just seems like such fun that it is the only decision I've ever made.

[THuckaby2]

I'm with ANDREW   here - I can't think of any split fairway I've played where the choice was anything but obvious.  One that comes to mind is at San Juan Oaks, a Couples/Bates course somewhat near Monterey... I believe it's #14... split fairway where there is absolutely no reason to hit to the upper/right side - it's a semi-blind tee shot to a slightly wider area that leaves your 2nd blocked by a tree near the green.  The left is narrow, but the only reason to go right is to see what it's like up there (which I have, just for kicks).

I'd LOVE to here what the arkies where thinking there....

There's a decent on at Wente Vineyards - #18 - but the right side is so damn narrow that going that way does shorten the hole a bit, but leaves a 2nd directly over water... the reward isn't worth the risk...

I'd also love to hear about a good one I might have played.  Such must exist....


TH

[THuckaby2]

Tim - interesting submission re Yale18.  I've had but one try there, and the though of going right never occurred to me... neither did it (I think) to any of our group... Paul Turner ended up down there, but I don't think it was intentional....

Maybe I ought to have gone right, I chopped my 2nd into the hill after a very good drive.  Such is golf.

But it's funny I didn't think of that as a "split fairway" - to me it was a hill and something below it...

TH

[Travis_Hood]

The par 5 seventh at Valhalla has the small island fairway left of the intended path.  It is about a 285 yard carry to the target that is only about 30 yards wide.  However, from here the green is easily reached in two.  Taking the conservative route is just a hair shy of 600 yards.

In the '96 PGA the alternate fairway was deemed 'out of bounds'.  For '00 a new tee was constructed to give the players their choice.

[APBernstein]

The 9th at Pete Dye Golf Club might qualify, though it is the same fairway merely divided by a bunker in the middle of the fairway.  Even with that opening description, the hole is a very good one and much more complicated than at first glance.

The 9th is a long par 4 measuring around 450 yards from the "blue" tees.  It plays downhill on the tee shot as you play from a bluff overlooking Simpson Creek.  The high road, or left option, allows plenty of fairway and a only requires a carry of about 150 yards (to the fairway).  The low road, or right option, is a strip of fairway, approximately 20 yards wide, which sits in between the fairwway bunker to the left and a wooded slope to the right.

In my last round, I boldly succeeded with my best drive of the day right in the middle of the right fairway which gave me a 5 iron into the mouth of the green.  A shot from the left must be carefully worked right to left around a front left bunker (deep and no fun at all) to a green that slopes away from that particular shot.  A layup short is almost the better play.

I think this one works and works very well.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Doug,
You talked about risk/reward in relation to split fairways. Why, on this type of hole, should a player always be rewarded with an easier approach shot? Why not a split fairway hole that rewards the shorter player with the easier but longer approach? The longer and supposedly better player has already received a reward, the next shot will be with a much shorter club, why remove the defenses?

[SPDB]

I don't think the fairways need to be split, i just think there needs to be multiple choices, a riskier one, which, ostensibly, would reward the gambler with an easier second shot; and an easier route which would make a tougher or longer route into the hole.

The strategy is brilliant and I am sad that it didn't see more use by Raynor, MacKenzie and MacDonald in the form of the Channel hole.

I think Fazio did a great job of creating a number of these holes at WW - Pine Barrens.

What are the best examples of Channel holes, or its ilk from the aforementioned archs? I know that the Camargo channel hole never was built (and to this day, even with explanation from Ran, i don't understand how it was originally designed).

[Doug Wright]

SPDB and others,

I agree that there are many other ways to create the same options and choices, including bunkering. Just look at The Old Course (and The Reverse Old Course--thanks Jeremy) for many examples of those. I just happened to be thinking about split fairways like the two I mentioned in this context...

Jim,

Works for me. Have you seen any examples?

[Jeff_McDowell]

Here's a dilemma for you. I'm working on a split fairway right now, but for the life of me I can't get a real good risk\reward decision worked into the hole. I'm sure something will come to me, but right now it escapes me.

So why am I providing a split fairway? Because it's there! The land is absolutely perfect for a split fairway. I'm sure golfers will be scartching their head trying to "get it", but the fact of the matter is that I'm just taking what the land is giving.

[Doug Wright]

Jeff, So you're saying the risk/reward right now is relatively equal on both sides? I'd say that's not necessarily a bad thing if folks come to the hole and say "Whoa, which way do I go?" Will it matter if the wind direction, pin placements vary? What I'd want to avoid would be where there really is only one option for the vast majority of players, or only one that will be used by the vast majority of players. If that's the case, perhaps you don't waste time grassing the nonviable option.

Most interesting--wish I had your job...

[Doug Wright]

Jeff,

PS I'll give you an "Amen" for taking what the land is giving. Also, can you do something with the greensite to change the dynamics?

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom Huckaby:

On #18 at Yale you can play your second shot right or left, but I don't think a sane man would try to go down the middle.
It is a split fairway, just a much different kind than the two more conventional Pete Dye examples I cited.

I'm wondering how much fun it would be to sit for a couple hours and watch people play that hole.  Could there be many more interesting to watch?

The two times I've played Yale I was the only one in my group to go left, but I have no idea why others didn't make the same choice.

[Jeff_McDowell]

Doug,

That's exactely the problem. There is no clear advantage to take one route over another. But the more I think about it the more I like this dilemma.

Wind won't be an issue, because the hole will be in the middle of a substantial pine forest. But pin placement could be a great deciding factor. I thought about that last night after I made my post and was driving home.

[THuckaby2]

Tim - interesting - as I say, my one time at Yale it was an absolute given that up and over on the left was the play.  The right wasn't even considered or looked at until Paul T. inadvertently hit it down there (and don't get the wrong idea, my partner Paul absolutely carried me the entire match).  Our member host Dr. Childs certainly didn't even glance down there himself...

So interesting that we had different experiences there, and heck yeah, I believe Geoffrey has said he HAS sat and watched people play the hole!

I still don't think of it as a split fairway though - there's no definition in the "middle" and if you did happen to hit it that way, it would simply roll down to the bottom (right) just due to gravity, wouldn't it?

This is splitting hairs - in the end you're right, there are two sides.  To me they're not separated by something defined enough (ie hazard) to meet what I think of as a split fairway, but to each his own!

And the bottom line is that call it what you will, it is one HELL of a fun golf hole.  God I'd love to have my 2nd shot over....

TH

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom Huckaby:

You might hit the ball down the middle and get lucky, but I wouldn't count on it.  It seems like you have to make up your mind and go one way or the other.

Happy to hear C Childs has done what I thought about.  Maybe he can chime in.

[THuckaby2]

Tim:  yes, obviously no one would ever purposely TRY to hit one half-way on the side of that hill, but unless it's very wet, hit it there and I gotta believe it rolls down to the right.  Thus there's no penalty for missing, or at least far less so than a hole with two fairways separated by a hazard... on 18Yale, even if it does hang on the hill, it will be playable...

I gather we just think of this differently, and that's cool.

TH

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom,

Keep in mind that maintenance at Yale can be pretty spotty, so who knows where you would end up.  Also, isn't visibility for the approach shot one of the things you are trying to accomplish with your second shot.  That's why I'd either want to be up the hill on the left or well right.  My memory may not be correct but it seems like some shots down the middle (those not long enough) might not leave the best view of the green.

I'm basically a pretty conservative player and would always want to improve my odds by avoiding unnecessary risk.  After all, I see no advantage going down the middle.

[THuckaby2]

Tim, we seem to be having a disconnect here - I believe I've said already at least twice there is NO WAY ONE WOULD EVER GO DOWN THE MIDDLE INTENTIONALLY.  I add to this that if one does, the ball is likely to roll down to the right due to gravity... but in any case, the middle is NEVER a play.

So yes, you're gonna try to go up the hill or down the hill, left or right.  There is a definite choice.  I still don't call it a "split fairway", for the reasons I state above, but my definition is different from yours and like I say, that's cool.

As for the strategy...  Having been there just once, take my words with an ocean of salt, but depending on where you've left your drive, I'd have to say it takes a long 2nd shot in EITHER CASE to have a view to the green for your 3rd, but it might even be slightly easier going left (top).  As for angle in, I can't see either side being that much of an advantage, but again, the top left would seem to go straighter into the green and not require carrying the right side bunker, as might be required from the lower right.

To be honest I don't see huge strategic advantages either way... the only real thing here is that if you hit a big drive, you CAN get to a point where a well-hit 2nd shot can make it completely OVER the hill going left and go down the other side, which would be impossible going right... thus the only way to get to where you have a wedge to the green, or for the Matt Ward types perhaps even REACH this 600+ yard monster in two, is going left and hoping for the big bounce.

Given there's no huge penalty either way though, I don't see much RISK involved - the only thing there is that it might be a slightly EASIER shot to go right, but going up the hill doesn't take all that much, even though I sure screwed it up myself!

Like I say, great hole.  Any that elicits this much conversation ought to be.

TH

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom,

I don't know about any "disconnect".  I'm just trying to see if my memory of the fine points of this hole makes sense and really wasn't sure how much ground you had to cover to get a view of the hole, going right, left or center.

All along I was thinking one needs to hit a pretty good tee shot and that poor tee shots might significantly influence how one played the second shot.  So, in that sense, it sounds like we are on the same page.

As for the definition of split fairway, I see creating different spins on the same basic theme as one of the recurring challenges architects face.  Split fairways are all about presenting the player with a choice, hopefully one that will make a difference.

The Pete Dye examples I cited were what we typically think of split fairways, but I also see using different elevations as accomplishing the same thing.  Dye actually does this on the 7th hole at Blackwolf Run.  Like #18 at Yale, you have to decide whether to go the high road or low road on you second shot.  You can hit down the middle, but it's a poor third choice.

I suppose we could debate whether the concept of split fairway absolutely takes the middle out of play.  I'll have to think about that, but my gut instinct is that the more confusion the better.  If it appears that you might be able to go down the middle, maybe that is an even better way to design the split fairway.

[THuckaby2]

Tim - that makes absolute, perfect sense... with one problem:  If the middle is playable, isn't this a "tri-fairway"?  Split means two sides....

I'm with ya though on the concept - I just ought to leave the language alone!

TH

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom,

I also wonder whether the language makes sense.  If I were an architect, I'd have enough problems with the creativity part.

[THuckaby2]

You and me both, Brother Tim.

Don't get me wromg though - I'm just giving you a hard time here - I do love the idea of that the less clear the choices, the better the hole is....

TH

[Dan Kelly]

Jeff McD --

I don't see any reason to be unhappy about a split fairway where there isn't any clear strategic advantage one way or the other. Let the player figure out whatever he or she can figure out from the tee.

Most of the split fairways I've played have suffered very badly from being too unequal: There has been only one smart play, and the other is worth thinking about only if you're (a) Tiger Woods, or (b) in a what-the-hell-life-is-short kind of mood.

I'd like to see a split-fairway hole where the strategic advantage would accrue not to the player who hits one fairway or the other, but to the player who can hit either fairway IN THE RIGHT PLACE. I'm thinking, say, of a split-fairway hole where (1) the lies toward the inside edge of each fairway will be considerably flatter than the lies to the sides of each fairway, or (2) balls hit to the inside edge of either fairway will not have to deal with greenside hazards that will confound shots hit from the outside of either fairway.
 
Does that make sense?

You say that the pin placement might determine the strategic advantage? I'm presuming that the green and the pin will be visible from the tee?