Every hole should be memorable

[Anthony Gray]

  After the first play you should be able to sit down in the clubhouse after the round and remember the holes one by one. Agree?

  Anthony

[Kalen Braley]

  After the first play you should be able to sit down in the clubhouse after the round and remember the holes one by one. Agree?

  Anthony

Agreed Anthony....but as it is my case, I can play any course once and remember the holes one by one, even several years later.

I'm not sure if its a blessing or curse because there are certainly some courses/holes I would much rather forget. 

[David Cronheim]

I agree - I think that's the mark of an exceptional course. You can replay the course in your mind when you're done. I happen to think the same thing about ski resorts. If I can replay every run in my mind after the day is done, it was a great day. It's a little easier with golf I think though.

I will also say that I think better players are better at remembering courses and have an easier time replaying a round in their head. Generalization, but an apt one I think.

[Ryan Farrow]

To those with exceptional memories.....

I'm not one of those people... I have been blessed with seeing some of the greatest golf courses in America and it really did not help me.... sure they are memorable but I probably obsess more with the things I really like or dislike, clearly remembering parts, but not the entire dish... Not all 18.

And on the other hand, I could re-count all 18 of some courses I really don't care for...

[Ally Mcintosh]

Anthony,

Here's a detailed thread on the topic...

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45761.0.html

Ally

[Terry Lavin]

No, I don't think that is true.  It's great when it is true, but sometimes the needs of the routing might mean that there is a hole or two that is only really meaningful as a transition and not particularly a memorable transition.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I can almost always remember every hole of every course I play for at least a few weeks, sometimes months or years. I think thats just the because of the way my memory works and my passion for golf architecture, where I am constantly studying/analyzing each hole as I play.

However, I do not believe every golf hole should be designed with the intent to be "memorable", just as there is no such thing as 18 signature holes, or even as some argue, signature holes in general. A golf course, like any work of art (painting, book, movie, etc) must have highs and lows, it cant just be non-stop action, there must be a sequencing that moves you throughout the property that makes the great holes really pop. Sure "transition holes" as they are sometimes called can be good and memorable as well, but without relative highs and lows I feel that everything would get jumbled together and the great holes that are really meant to stick out in ones memory wouldn't mean as much or have their desired impact.

 Look at the routings of some courses with great dune/seaside properties like Sebonack, Friars Head, Cypress, etc... there is movement that takes you in and out that keeps you interested and wanting more of the great stuff.

[Garland Bayley]

  After the first play you should be able to sit down in the clubhouse after the round and remember the holes one by one. Agree?

  Anthony

Oh, to be young again. Sigh. 

[Tom_Doak]

I can almost always remember every hole of every course I play for at least a few weeks, sometimes months or years. I think thats just the because of the way my memory works and my passion for golf architecture, where I am constantly studying/analyzing each hole as I play.

However, I do not believe every golf hole should be designed with the intent to be "memorable", just as there is no such thing as 18 signature holes, or even as some argue, signature holes in general. A golf course, like any work of art (painting, book, movie, etc) must have highs and lows, it cant just be non-stop action, there must be a sequencing that moves you throughout the property that makes the great holes really pop. Sure "transition holes" as they are sometimes called can be good and memorable as well, but without relative highs and lows I feel that everything would get jumbled together and the great holes that are really meant to stick out in ones memory wouldn't mean as much or have their desired impact.

 Look at the routings of some courses with great dune/seaside properties like Sebonack, Friars Head, Cypress, etc... there is movement that takes you in and out that keeps you interested and wanting more of the great stuff.

Anthony:

I generally agree with Jaeger's comment above.

Another issue is that the belief that "every hole should be memorable" is one of the main reasons many critics rate a course poorly if they play badly.  If they are busy playing the fifth hole out of the weeds, what will they remember of that hole at the end of the round?  And if it wasn't memorable then it must not be good!  This is why I sometimes wish raters would not play at all and just observe.

[Jud_T]

Anthony,

See Ian's rollercoaster thread...

[Anthony Gray]

  I think this is why I favor a Cruden Bay or Diamante over a Pinehurst or Royal Dornoch. I want a little piece of something on each hole. Even if it doesn't directly effect play consistantly. All in all I like holes with consistant interest.

  Anthony

[Greg Tallman]

  I think this is why I favor a Cruden Bay or Diamante over a Pinehurst or Royal Dornoch. I want a little piece of something on each hole. Even if it doesn't directly effect play consistantly. All in all I like holes with consistant interest.

  Anthony

What does #1 at Diamante give you a piece of?

[Tim Book]

I think there is a difference between being "memorable" and offering enough to be remembered.  I am a "spreadsheet dork" that tries to record notes about how I played during my rounds.  Sometimes time doesn't allow me to "fill out my sheet" right after I play.  I believe that courses that I can easily remember hole after hole weeks later are usually better courses than courses I can't remember.  If I look back at the card, I should be able to remember enough about the hole.  If not, someone dropped the ball along the way. 

[Sean_A]

I think all 18 holes should be memorable in context with each other and as a course.  That doesn't in the least mean all should be great holes only that there is enough about the hole to seperate it from the others.   Whether or not someone can remember all 18 is irrelevant and a function of one's memory, not the quality of the course.  I place the idea of all 18 should be remembered on the shelf next to the course will make one use every club in the bag.  They are meaningless phrases in context of design.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

I can remember most courses and the holes I have played but there are some from 30 years ago that I tend to remember the first couple of holes then the last one and perhaps a stand out hole. It does not mean the first or last are memorable but they tend to stick and courses like Walton Heath I really cant remember the middle bit other than it was pretty good.

[Anthony Gray]

  I think this is why I favor a Cruden Bay or Diamante over a Pinehurst or Royal Dornoch. I want a little piece of something on each hole. Even if it doesn't directly effect play consistantly. All in all I like holes with consistant interest.

  Anthony

What does #1 at Diamante give you a piece of?

  Its gets your mind off that girl at the driving range.

  Anthony

[Greg Tallman]

  I think this is why I favor a Cruden Bay or Diamante over a Pinehurst or Royal Dornoch. I want a little piece of something on each hole. Even if it doesn't directly effect play consistantly. All in all I like holes with consistant interest.

  Anthony

What does #1 at Diamante give you a piece of?

  Its gets your mind off that girl at the driving range.

  Anthony

And beyond that?

[Ben Sims]

No, but it should serve a purpose.  This is why golf holes like the #11 at Yale and #12 at Pac Dunes should be celebrated.   An archie can't throw haymakers at you on every hole.  Crescendo, ebb and flow, intimacy and grandeur; the best golf courses have all of those.

[Bruce Hardie]

Like other areas of my life I am pretty good at remembering faces but not names.

eg. When discussing a visit to a course with a friend:
Friend - What did you think of the 15th?
Me - *blank look*
Friend - The slight dogleg to the right with the bunker on the outside.
Me - Oh yeah.

This conversation could take place immediately after the round or 2 years later and the result would be the same.

I blame it on Dr Bob and trying to live in the moment when playing.

[Brandon Urban]

My buddy and I had this conversation just the other day. He and I play most of our rounds together, whether it be at our home course or elsewhere. We both enjoy architecture and chat about it quite a bit during rounds. We also share many of the same thoughts when it comes to golf courses. The funny part is we couldn't be more different when it comes to remembering holes.
 
I am the type that can remember pretty much every hole whether it is memorable or not from every round for the last five years.

He is the type that has no clue. Just today after the round at our home course I asked him about hole 13... he thought for a bit and then asked me to describe it. We've played Prairie Dunes together, of which, IMO, every hole is memorable... He could probably recall numbers 2, 7, 8, and 17, 18, but that's about it. But he will tell you it is his favorite course he has ever played.

So, to end my ramble, even if each hole is memorable it may not be memorable to everyone... I think it's more each person's personality, recall, and experience. Maybe some of us are just more of a golf dork than the others.

[mike_beene]

it took me a while to get 3,4 and 6 at the Old Course straight in my mind and the little mound on 4 is sometimes all I can think of to distinguish it's green from 6.I think it's the blind nature of those drives.

[Tom_Doak]

I can remember most courses and the holes I have played but there are some from 30 years ago that I tend to remember the first couple of holes then the last one and perhaps a stand out hole. It does not mean the first or last are memorable but they tend to stick and courses like Walton Heath I really cant remember the middle bit other than it was pretty good.

Adrian:

You should probably go back to Walton Heath.  I don't disagree with what you are saying -- those middle holes are not so memorable -- but at the same time, they are very good and not all the same as one tends to remember them.

[Duncan Cheslett]

This is exactly the criterion on which I based my choice of club to join.

I played many local courses and each time while making my way home I could only really remember 3 or 4 holes; the rest merged into one amorphous mass in my memory. I simply couldn't imagine spending the next 20 years traipsing up and down a farmer's field for fun.

Finally I found a course of which I could remember every detail afterwards.  I had no real understanding of golf course architecture at the time but I did know that I wanted to play a course that would never bore me.

Since then I have played other courses on which I can remember the whole round and still hold to the admittedly rather crude opinion that these are the courses of quality.

I suspect that many of you guys on here never play on the overwhelming majority of 'bog standard' golf courses which are, to be frank, pretty dull...

[Anthony Gray]

  I think this is why I favor a Cruden Bay or Diamante over a Pinehurst or Royal Dornoch. I want a little piece of something on each hole. Even if it doesn't directly effect play consistantly. All in all I like holes with consistant interest.

  Anthony

What does #1 at Diamante give you a piece of?

  Its gets your mind off that girl at the driving range.

  Anthony

And beyond that?

  Every opening hole is memorable simply because you remember the start. Loved those sliders.

  Anthony

[Greg Tallman]

You start a thread and cite a specific course as an example yet cannot provide anything about a specific hole? Come on Anthony.

I think Diamante might be the perfect course to refute your theory rather than support it.

The overall feel, scale and experience override the remembrance of each singlular hole. That said there are several holes that even those with a poor memory will have forever etched in their mind.