[Jim Colton]

Isn't the point of minimalism to make it look like it's been there forever? Seems to me if they left it as grass and enough foot traffic and hacks and slashes were made out of the pit, eventually the wind would take care of the rest. So in my mind, Tom & crew are just advancing the clock by 30+ years.


Where does the green start on the 3rd hole? (Not so) false front?
 

[John Kavanaugh]

No, a water hazard is better because after the splash all you got to do is take a drop.  I love the finality of water.  Crawling down into one of these holes only to return without a ball is akin to climbing Mount Everest and forgetting your flag. Too much effort with nothing to show for it.

[Kalen Braley]

I would have thought the feature would have been left as it.....after all, Tom did set a precedent for this.

The 16th at Pacific Dunes:  Missing the green right and short and ending up in a divot riddled lie in the rough and facing a steep up hole shot to a shallow green with a nasty bunker behind is probably more penal than the 3rd at Dismal 2.0 will play.

[John Kavanaugh]

I would have thought the feature would have been left as it.....after all, Tom did set a precedent for this.

The 16th at Pacific Dunes:  Missing the green right and short and ending up in a divot riddled lie in the rough and facing a steep up hole shot to a shallow green with a nasty bunker behind is probably more penal than the 3rd at Dismal 2.0 will play.

Kalen,

You might have a point if the 3rd at Dismal was a drivable par 4.

[Michael George]

Is the 3rd at Dismal as narrow of a green as 16 at Pacific Dunes.

If so, I will be playing it as a par 4!

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the 3rd at Dismal as narrow of a green as 16 at Pacific Dunes.

If so, I will be playing it as a par 4!

I think most will play it as a par 4 no matter the size of the green.  The good news is that the par 5 first plays as a par 4 so if you can get by the second, no small task, you will be even.

Funny how everyone is ignoring the small bunker left that looks to be forming.

[Phil McDade]

Is the 3rd at Dismal as narrow of a green as 16 at Pacific Dunes.

If so, I will be playing it as a par 4!

I think most will play it as a par 4 no matter the size of the green.  The good news is that the par 5 first plays as a par 4 so if you can get by the second, no small task, you will be even.

Funny how everyone is ignoring the small bunker left that looks to be forming.

So if this to play as a NADER (and I'm not sure it's intended to...), does that mean one must flirt with the bunker left to get the requisite kick toward a back pin? If that's the case, nice design.

[Mike Hendren]

Funny how everyone is ignoring the small bunker left that looks to be forming.

I can make 4 from there.

[John Kavanaugh]

Given my propensity to get scared and hit too much club on par threes with fronting hazards I can see myself finding the back bunker.  That could be a difficult 4 given the "false front".  Some poor soul will eventually find all three bunkers during the same play.  At least its all downhill from there as I believe this is the high point of the course.

Nice strategy in aiming for the front left bunker to guarantee a four.  We might even call it the Bogey bunker.

I like really difficult third holes where you won't make your round but you just might lose it.

[Adam Clayman]

Isn't the point of minimalism to make it look like it's been there forever? Seems to me if they left it as grass and enough foot traffic and hacks and slashes were made out of the pit, eventually the wind would take care of the rest. So in my mind, Tom & crew are just advancing the clock by 30+ years.

 

Jim, Are you under the assumption that hollow was natural? From my untrained eye, that was someones attempt to grab material. From it's look, I'd guess at least 10 years ago, because thats about how long it takes it to return a natural vegetative state.

[Randy Thompson]

Isn't the point of minimalism to make it look like it's been there forever? Seems to me if they left it as grass and enough foot traffic and hacks and slashes were made out of the pit, eventually the wind would take care of the rest. So in my mind, Tom & crew are just advancing the clock by 30+ years.

 

Jim, Are you under the assumption that hollow was natural? From my untrained eye, that was someones attempt to grab material. From it's look, I'd guess at least 10 years ago, because thats about how long it takes it to return a natural vegetative state.

That makes two of us Adam!

[John Kavanaugh]

Why would someone bring in an excavator to create that borrow pit when they could have just scraped the top of a hill off with a smaller tractor?  I'm guessing meteorite strike.

[Steve Strasheim]

What a great thread. Really appreciate you folks posting pictures and the DR group for encouraging/allowing it.

[Will Lozier]

Tom,

Can you give us an approximation for the size of #3 green - it looks huge.

Cheers

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

Can you give us an approximation for the size of #3 green - it looks huge.

Cheers

Will:

As I recall, the green is between 7000 and 7500 square feet.  Some of the lighter-colored sand at the front left is part of the approach, not part of the green ... there is too much fall there for it to be green surface.  The majority of the green surface falls from left to right and from front to back.  There's a bit of a ridge along the top of the big bunker, so you are unlikely to putt into it.

[Randy Thompson]

Tom,
Love what you did with the bunker and what was carved out to sand, pure art IMO. Ten points! Shed some light on me though and leaving the gruch. Sounds like it is pretty close to the green and if you get in the grunch it pretty much unplayable. Canīt it be overseeded to increse the desensity and make it playable?? Some say to steep to mow?? So that means you probably wonīt be able to retrive your ball either? Is the sand compacted where the ball wonīt plug? If it does those slope will be hell to maintain with people hiking up them and then trying to create a stance.

[Will Lozier]

Tom,

Can you give us an approximation for the size of #3 green - it looks huge.

Cheers

Will:

As I recall, the green is between 7000 and 7500 square feet.  Some of the lighter-colored sand at the front left is part of the approach, not part of the green ... there is too much fall there for it to be green surface.  The majority of the green surface falls from left to right and from front to back.  There's a bit of a ridge along the top of the big bunker, so you are unlikely to putt into it.

Tom,

And the hole is about 190 from the back tees but about how far uphill - is there 15 feet of elevation gain?  Could it be called a reverse Redan with the slope you describe?  Or is the orientation of the green not quite angled enough?  Or, would you simply not prefer to label it?

Cheers

[Chris Johnston]

The feature on the right side of #3 is very much natural. There are several such "scoops" on the property, a few much larger. 

What may have caused this, if anything?  My guess is Bison.  There were Sioux tribes in the area who camped along the Dismal.  A tale is told that Buffalo Bill engaged in an "Indian battle" on the property.  Arrowheads can be found - quite common out this way.  The Souix tribe was nomadic and moved all over the area, camping near water, covering several states.  We are 2ish hours from Fort Robinson, where the final "Renegade Sioux" surrendered, where Crazy Horse incarcerated and murdered.  The Wounded Knee Massacre "battlefield" is even closer. 

The property has been used long before "we" arrived.  Just off of Tom's 16th green is an anchient "buffalo run" which crosses the Dismal providing access through the "steeps".  I'm guessing it's been there for centuries, or more. 

There is a very interesting and massive feature to the left of 17 Nicklaus.  Very large and very much the "big brother" of the scoop left of #3.  Once of the coolest green sites I have seen anywhere.  Today, home for deer and other critter's.  Most people never even notice it - but, if you have look, it is mesmerizing.

As far as #3, I'm certain you don't want to hit in there and love what Tom and the crew have done.  The course has really come alive and I believe it will be one of Tom's most special.  The holes (and bunkers) really fit the land and its spirit.  If the wind would lay down, Don could begin to seed her in.  Jaeger Kovich worked yesterday in ski goggles - odd in that it was quite warm.

As far as legend, I rather like the meteor strike.  Or a Ghost dance hall.

[Randy Thompson]

The holes (and bunkers) really fit the land and its spirit.
Chris,
Ditto!

[Michael George]

Chris - can we get pictures of the back nine?  I want to see the terrain that Mr. Smith is going to be walking 82 holes on!  

BTW - I tested myself to see if I could do the 100 hole hike.  

Jim Colton - if you rename it the 54 hole hike, I am in (even though I was pretty sore on Sunday).  
I could do 72 for a good cause - which would require me to take a week of golf off afterwards for rehab.  
100 holes - I would have to be the charity as I am not sure I could walk again after that.  

However, I really applaud everyone that is doing it - great idea and great causes.

[Eric Smith]

Chris - can we get pictures of the back nine?

Mike,

Allow me to once again present "John in Unripened Avocado" from page 6:

10 tee


18 tee

[Mac Plumart]

I just got back from Dismal last night.  The construction continues and the course is really taking shape.  When I left last time, 18 was just starting to be worked on pretty hard core.  Here is a picture of the approach on 18 as of Thursday...



It really looks pretty sweet to me.


When I left on Sunday, the RGD team was hard at work on the 12th hole.  The green site is gonna be spectacular!!

[Jason Hines]

Hi Mac,

Did you take any pictures of 16?

Jason

[Mac Plumart]

Hey Jason...

I don't think I did.  I don't have all my photos with me right now, but I'm pretty sure I got 17 and 18 photos as they were the most changed from my last visit...but I don't think I took any of 16.  Sorry.

[Tom_Doak]

Jason:

We changed #16 green a bit on Saturday to make the left-hand hole location more accessible by lowering the front left bunker and taking a bit of downslope out of the green just behind it.  I think that's a pretty cool green now.  Five holes left to irrigate and seed -- 10, 12, 13, 14, and 15 -- but the shaping is complete apart from #13 fairway where we are starting to fill the ravine.

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