News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #100 on: September 13, 2011, 11:57:46 PM »
That's a great idea!

 Would make a great deep dive magazine series too.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2011, 09:17:47 AM »
Has anyone been getting some of this design and build on HD video? 

No, thanks!  Between Sebonack and Old Macdonald [and a bit at Streamsong, too], I've already spent more time in front of a camera than I ever wanted to. 

Hardly anybody really wants to watch that stuff.  There are always some people on the crew who enjoy their 15 minutes of fame, but I can tell you from experience that it gets in the way of the creative process, because it's so distracting.  Almost none of that "fly on the wall" stuff you see on TV is REALLY "fly on the wall," it's mostly staged or re-staged.




John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2011, 09:27:35 AM »


Where would the tee be located in this picture and how long is the hole?   For reference, I would consider the utility vehicle in the upper right quadrant of the picture putting it at two o'clock.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 09:31:05 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2011, 10:03:44 AM »
Keystone light sales have skyrocketed in Mullen.  Just watched the boys play the front.  Cap'n hit it to 6 inches in 7.  

We then hooked up with Brent Gander  (Brett's stripper name) and took a ride across the river for an aerial view of the course above Little Horseshoe.  The boys were blown away as you can see some really speacial views from up there.  Remember, Lads, shhhh.

Ben Sims is a great guy and a hero in my book.  He sure has alot to talk about when he gets home.  Well received, indeed.

Jason - that M is for Mullen.  We'll be posting a short video for Gander later on.  I'll send him home with a bit of Red.





Keystone Light?  I thought DR was more respectable than that.  Surely there had to be Busch Light available somewhere....
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2011, 11:35:39 AM »
Don, Tom or anyone,

I'm curious as to why the 10 acres of turf was all hand raked, as opposed to using a sand pro with cultivator to break up the soil a bit? Root mass below, compaction?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2011, 11:44:38 AM »


Where would the tee be located in this picture and how long is the hole?   For reference, I would consider the utility vehicle in the upper right quadrant of the picture putting it at two o'clock.



Front/middle tees are at 11 o'clock [and you may be seeing the front of them at the top of the picture].  130/115 yards from there.

Back/middle tees are at 10 o'clock.  164/150 yards from there.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2011, 11:50:35 AM »
Thanks, hard to believe I caught myself looking at my watch to see where 10 o'clock would be in relation to 11.

Jeffrey Stein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #107 on: September 14, 2011, 10:15:29 PM »
Tony,

The overwhelming theme here has been to leave as much natural contour as possible, rather than to create anything new.  One green we finished this fall was literally tilled, tracked in, raked clean, and seeded.  The finish work was extremely labor intensive but we managed to finish 6 greens in this manner in about 3 weeks.  The speed at which we were able to finish is in part a testament to excellent green sites, good material, and great natural movement in the ground
I love the smell of hydroseed in the morning.
www.steingolf.com

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #108 on: September 14, 2011, 10:25:23 PM »
Jeff,

How's that bunker on 15 we talked about coming along?  You had it looking pretty solid on Monday. 

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2011, 12:33:44 AM »
This is getting to be a bit much now. I love it. I don't know anything about any videos either.

JC, it's a pretty nice looking hat I think, and a bit better than that avatar of yours ;)

And regarding everything else, it really is what it seems.  A lot of hard work in the heat (though not today--40s with wind and rain), a lot of pride and joy in what we are doing, a lot of fun, and incredible hospitality by our host and staff.  Also, the scenery is something else, especially from the top of the bluff.  Mouth shut. ;D

Also, I believe I said something about 5-1 in a certain 4th quarter of a certain football game last Saturday night...
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #110 on: September 15, 2011, 03:52:26 AM »
Tony,

The overwhelming theme here has been to leave as much natural contour as possible, rather than to create anything new.  One green we finished this fall was literally tilled, tracked in, raked clean, and seeded.  The finish work was extremely labor intensive but we managed to finish 6 greens in this manner in about 3 weeks.  The speed at which we were able to finish is in part a testament to excellent green sites, good material, and great natural movement in the ground

I understand and appreciate the desire to preserve God's gifts, and from the photos it looks like you're awash in them, but with a sand pro and cultivator that wouldn't be messing with contour... or do you feel you would be eliminating some really, really small stuff you'd rather preserve?

No import of rootzone/native sand from somewhere in the vicinity to any of the greens? I'm curious as to your green construction method.

Best of luck to everyone.


Don_Mahaffey

Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #111 on: September 15, 2011, 08:19:50 AM »
Tony,
The green's construction method would be best described as push up...I guess. Except nothing is really pushed up, shaped in place is more like it.

The soil there looks to be quite fertile and tests out very well, especially the chemical tests as the pH is right where you'd want it and nutrients and minerals are in a nice balance. But, its taken thousands of years to get that way and all you have to do is drive around and see other scars such as utility trenches, construction disruption, and other areas of disturbance to see how long it takes for the soil to heal. Its a fragile environment and best not to disturb unless necessary.  We'd like to hand over a course to Jagger that can be maintained with a low input emphasis rather then constant remedial work which is more common in golf construction.

As far as using the cultivator instead of the rake, the cultivator pulls up organic material that then requires more hand raking to collect and remove. Hand raking is slower, and more labor intensive, but a better approach if all you trying to do is get a clean seedbed with a minimum of soil disturbance. Also doesn't hurt that a rubber tire machine, even one with as light a footprint as a sand rake, isn't spinning endless donuts on your top soil.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #112 on: September 15, 2011, 12:03:58 PM »
This is getting to be a bit much now. I love it. I don't know anything about any videos either.

JC, it's a pretty nice looking hat I think, and a bit better than that avatar of yours ;)

And regarding everything else, it really is what it seems.  A lot of hard work in the heat (though not today--40s with wind and rain), a lot of pride and joy in what we are doing, a lot of fun, and incredible hospitality by our host and staff.  Also, the scenery is something else, especially from the top of the bluff.  Mouth shut. ;D

Also, I believe I said something about 5-1 in a certain 4th quarter of a certain football game last Saturday night...

That's it Hochstein, GLOVES OFF!!   ;D ;D
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #113 on: September 15, 2011, 02:46:18 PM »
Jason - you may want to see the video before taking the gloves off!

Gander - the view was astounding from up there.  Hope you post some pix of the 13,15 and 16 together in one frame from the top.

Tom - only their families know where they are!

Cold soggy day here.  Back up to 70's and 80's the next few.  Nicklaus course should be for the taking this weekend.

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #114 on: September 20, 2011, 08:47:25 PM »
All

I'm please to annonce we have achieved germination!  We have grass on the Doak Course! Both the bent and fescue are coming in!

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2011, 09:12:05 PM »
Best news of the day.  Miss the hydro-seed, the rakes, the sunburn and the late day cold one as you finish up. 

Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #116 on: September 20, 2011, 09:21:55 PM »
This is getting to be a bit much now. I love it. I don't know anything about any videos either.

JC, it's a pretty nice looking hat I think, and a bit better than that avatar of yours ;)

And regarding everything else, it really is what it seems.  A lot of hard work in the heat (though not today--40s with wind and rain), a lot of pride and joy in what we are doing, a lot of fun, and incredible hospitality by our host and staff.  Also, the scenery is something else, especially from the top of the bluff.  Mouth shut. ;D

Also, I believe I said something about 5-1 in a certain 4th quarter of a certain football game last Saturday night...


That's it Hochstein, GLOVES OFF!!   ;D ;D


I'm sure Brett is shaking in his boots.  For the record, JC's nickname is Big Baby.  That's because he's roughly the size of a hobbit. 
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2011, 07:20:03 PM »
I know how exciting this time is.  I remember when they seeded Gil's French Creek - I couldn't wait to get out there and just walk the course.  Pretty cool times!


Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2011, 09:02:45 PM »
Chris Johnston,

Congratulations to you and your team!  In just a few short months, it has been remarkable to watch and read about the evolution of the Doak course since the inception of the project.  I've enjoyed looking at the construction photos as well as reading everyone's input about the project.  I anxiously await your next update!  Keep it coming.  Cheers!
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2011, 09:33:33 PM »
Ron.  Thank you but, the truth is, I have very little do do with new course.  This is Tom's baby in terms of design and I am very pleased with his vision and layout.  The Irrigation is Don's baby and it thye attention to detail is equally impressive.  They are doing what I believe will be some trendsetting things.

Most of the time I'm and interested spectator like you but I do go out from time to time to gently encourage the grass to grow.

Anthony Gray

Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #120 on: September 22, 2011, 08:20:08 AM »
Ron.  Thank you but, the truth is, I have very little do do with new course.  This is Tom's baby in terms of design and I am very pleased with his vision and layout.  The Irrigation is Don's baby and it thye attention to detail is equally impressive.  They are doing what I believe will be some trendsetting things.

Most of the time I'm and interested spectator like you but I do go out from time to time to gently encourage the grass to grow.

  This seems extremely difficult to do. There has to be some things you have suggested. What are they?

  Anthony


Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #121 on: September 22, 2011, 08:55:47 AM »
Anthony - it's quite true.

In the beginning, Tom did ask me a few questions.

How important is:

Par at 72?  (Not important"
The course ending where it begins? (Not important)
Walkability?  (Very important)

We did discuss the notion that the greens should be similar wrt speed to the Nicklaus course and the early controvery at the Nicklaus with the internal contours/speed - that led to bentgrass.  Personally, I don't like slow greens, and one fast and one slow would have been problematic.  Tom shared his vision for the course and I loved it.

Other than that, they have complete creative freedom.  I can't speak for Tom, but the opportunity to build on a great site in the Sand Hills has to fulfill a dream.  With Brian, Eric, Dirt, and the boys, I have full faith the the course will be among his best work.  Tom mostly keeps me posted but simplicty and natural firt are already baked in.  The greens will be unique and will be a hoot and the layout like nothing I have seen!









Anthony Gray

Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #122 on: September 22, 2011, 09:09:19 AM »


  Chris,

 Thanks for the reply. Not even one little "Tom....I like that green on 14 at Cruden Bay".

  Anthony


Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #123 on: September 22, 2011, 09:41:28 AM »


  Chris,

 Thanks for the reply. Not even one little "Tom....I like that green on 14 at Cruden Bay".

  Anthony

Anthony - I do like that green at Cruden Bay...then again, I like all of Cruden Bay.  What a special place!

The 13th green is now completed and growing in - it required no major earthmoving - more greens are like this than not.  I really does look like carpet was laid on the ground.  I am thrilled with the 15th green but do give the boys a bit of the needle - it is very unique (reminds a bit of Cruden Bay) and fits the "moguls" that were already there.  16 green (with pix posted) is a delightful short par 3.  While we are different personalities, Tom and I are very like minded.  Don and I are too.  I really can't wait to see 17 and 18 next year.

I suppose if I saw something I really didn't like, I would discuss it with Tom.  The routing was mowed out two months ago, and I loved it.  Very natural holes tied into spectaular backdrops is the best combination I have ever seen - its unique to the site and isn't PR.  This one is different in so many ways.  This is Tom's craft, he is pretty good at it, and he has the freedom to do as he wishes.  I think that best and hope it is a dream job for Tom.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Dismal River Golf Club - Construction Progress Update
« Reply #124 on: September 22, 2011, 10:51:34 AM »
Anthony,

I wanted to add to Chris' conversation on #13 to illustrate one of a million little details that we never hear about on this site when building a golf course.  The finish work was fairly intensive on that hole.  That isn't to say that there wasn't a very natural existing green there and a bunch of dirt was moved.  On the contrary.  When a site is so natural and requires so little tilling and/or earthmoving, the "duff" issue is more than we had on the other greens.  Every time a rake went over an area, more organic stuff (roots, dead grass, etc) would sift out to the surface.  Getting that green ready for seeding was very rake intensive vs. the other greens for this reason.  

The other holes that were tilled a bit more or some minor cut/fill work was done, the duff issue was much less.  So in effect, the more natural a green is, the more finish work it may require vs. a created surface.  One of the many details I learned while up there.