What do you think of this classic public course's new Master Plan? (Wilmette GC)

[PCCraig]

Just another note, they are charging $49 to play the course on a weekend morning, walking, $65 with a cart.

[Phil McDade]

Pat:

Martin has designed two pretty well-received courses here in southern Wisconsin -- the Oaks (not far from my home, and my high school's home course), which was a top-10 new affordable course for Golf Digest several years ago, and Glen Erin, near Janesville. Both have solid greens and good bunkering -- two issues that the master plan gets at for Wilmette. For what it's worth, he's also largely credited with the improvements at Rich Harvest Farms, the "self-designed" course near Chicago that hosted the Solheim Cup not long ago. Here's a thread on Glen Erin:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39725.0.html

Phil:

Many of those greens in your pictures above look pretty interesting (and big). I'd be curious to see what Martin would do with the green contours at Wilmette, which on the whole are pretty small.

Pat:

Martin's greens do have a lot of interest -- two-tier or multi-tier things, with opportunities for multiple pin positions, at both courses.

To be honest, I didn't read the entire draft -- but one comment begs a question. Are the soils/terrain at Wilmette that different from everything else on the North Shore? I know plenty of over-treed public courses that are OK in terms of growing grass.

Maybe the Wilmette folks should drive a few blocks north and take a look at Bonnie Brook, a well-run muni in Waukegan that's a Foulis original. Well-maintained, at a price point I think comparable to Wilmette. I know Waukegan's not Wilmette, but Bonnie Brook is a pretty good example of a well-run, well-conditioned, solid test of golf:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30036.0.html

[PCCraig]

Pat, you like the green complex on #13?  That cart path down the right side that kicks an approach that's 5 feet off the green OB is an abomination.  The rest is fine.  I agree with that.

Dave,

I forgot that they added that cart path to the right side of #13. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was remembering that carts used to flow to the left of the green next to the 16th tee.

"like" is a strong word in the grand scheme of things. Some of the old greens at Wilmette (that they've slowly taken out) were actually pretty fun in a subtle way. I remember really liking the old green on what was #14 (now #5) before they ripped it up, and I think the greens at #2, #4, and #15 are pretty good. They never used to cover those older greens up during the winter, which during a warm December meant Stan and I would drive out to the barn with our putters and put around to the abandoned holes.

Part of me just wishes they would just cut down a bunch of trees, widen out the fairways as much as possible, and reclaim as much of the old greens as they can to see how that works for the turf and for playability. Then if they still aren't happy, they can complete the major overhaul of the course.

Of course, they probably aren't thinking that way. You're right about the cart revenue, they probably want a big new facility to attract golfers from the city that are willing to subsidize the dwindling resident memberships.

[Paul OConnor]

Wilmette doesn't have the $4.0 mil,  so they would have to finance this boondoggle.  At 5%, interest is $200k per year, or $5 a round on 40k rounds.  Well, $5/round increase doesn't sound so much of a bump on the rack rate of $49, but $5/round on the discounted membership rounds is a huge bump.  Residents are paying about $15-17/round depending on their membership plan, juniors are paying $9/round.   I don't see how a 30% increase in membership costs is going to maintain current membership levels, let alone attract new members.  Any advertised increase in cart revenue should also be suspect, as Shivas correctly points out, most players are walking this course. 


The math on this plan needs a little review.

[Jud_T]

Pat,

So that's where you learned to hit it on a rope..  Re-the trees, doesn't the town have an ordinance that you can't cut down trees without replanting trees with similar circumference or paying very large fees?  I know this is the case on most of the North Shore as we paid a princely sum to cut down 1 tree...

[PCCraig]

I like the little knob smack dab in the front of the 6th green that really affects attempts to reach that green in two, kicking run-ups left or right, depending on which side of the knob you hit...in fact, I like that sort of subtle feature on pretty much any reachable par 5...it adds "rub of the green" randomness to the ground game, and I'm all in favor of that...

I agree, I also like that "nub" even when you lay up to a wedge because when the pin is up front (it usually is) it's nearly impossible to keep the ball pin high and pitch shots usually make it to the middle of the green.

[Jeff_Brauer]

P and I would probably be no more than $360K right now.

I would love to hear a managers take on the golf pass allowing play at $15-17 per round.  Seems like half price ($25) would be enough of a discount for seniors and pass holders.  Yes, you will lose some golfers, but typically, and hopefully, it would be the ones that abuse the system the most - playing so much its like $5 per round on their season pass/membership plan.

There might be an answer in restructuring the membership plans a bit.

Golf has always had this problem - generally you can make money on operations, but cost of construction and land are a little harder to make work at what the public wants to pay.

[PCCraig]

Pat,

So that's where you learned to hit it on a rope..  Re-the trees, doesn't the town have an ordinance that you can't cut down trees without replanting trees with similar circumference or paying very large fees?  I know this is the case on most of the North Shore as we paid a princely sum to cut down 1 tree...

Does that rope curve from right to left? I sure did learn how to hit off a variety of lies around the greens at Wilmette, but I'm also probably a terrible long iron player as well from playing there a lot growing up...where I would probably hit maybe 4 a round consistently (two off tees).

That law is scary. I would guess though that the park district could figure out a way around those fees though, right?

[PCCraig]

P and I would probably be no more than $360K right now.

I would love to hear a managers take on the golf pass allowing play at $15-17 per round.  Seems like half price ($25) would be enough of a discount for seniors and pass holders.  Yes, you will lose some golfers, but typically, and hopefully, it would be the ones that abuse the system the most - playing so much its like $5 per round on their season pass/membership plan.

There might be an answer in restructuring the membership plans a bit.

Golf has always had this problem - generally you can make money on operations, but cost of construction and land are a little harder to make work at what the public wants to pay.

Jeff,

While Wilmette is overall a pretty wealthy suburb, many of the "members" would go crazy with the idea of having to pay such a large increase in their annual pass cost. Having said that, they've lost a good deal of these members in recent years. Historically the course would have two tiers of green fees, normal and twilight (starting at 3pm or whenever). Once the twilight rush would die down the course would slow down and a bunch of members would come out and play a late 3/6/9/12 holes. But the management and park district decided to install a new "super" twilight starting even later which ensured the first tee was packed pretty much up to 90 min before dark...which defeated the purpose of the membership to many guys who only played one or two 18 hole rounds a week.

That's the kind of management and membership they're working with on this project

 

[PCCraig]

Any advertised increase in cart revenue should also be suspect, as Shivas correctly points out, most players are walking this course. 

Paul,

I would say most members, playing on weekend mornings, are walking. However during the week and weekend afternoons most golfers use carts (which is sad considering that it could be the easiest walk in golf...dead flat). When I worked there, they leased about 50 carts, and on weekend afternoons they would sell out carts often.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Pat,

I understand the issues, especially with seniors who complain about any price increase.  Do we know what the annual ops cost are for this course?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Has the work been done here? If so, any comments?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Course closed. Under construction. Take a look:

http://www.wilmettepark.org/golf/course/construction

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Course will reopen in June next year.

Play it and then see if you like it.

[Howard Riefs]

The course is re-opening this weekend after its $2.5M renovation project:

"The primary purpose of the biggest undertaking in the club’s almost 100-year history was to improve drainage and reduce flooding. Greg Martin, the architect in charge of the venture, also reconstructed 51 bunkers and reconfigured all 18 greens as a way to enhance playability at the course, which opened in 1922."

http://winnetka.suntimes.com/2014/07/10/wilmette-golf-club-reopening-face-lift/

[Paul OConnor]

"The back nine’s bioswale, otherwise known as a dry creek, now allows a place for excess water to go."

Even the article's author is mocking the "bioswale."  If this little piece of crap makes the smallest bit of difference of this course flooding, I will immediately install a bioswale in my own backyard.   It looks like a good place to store mosquito larvae.

"Nearly 8 inches of rain fell in Wilmette in June, more than twice the average for the summer month, and Matchen said the course passed the test."

Well, I hardly think one month with 8 inches of rain qualifies as "passed the test."  Let's wait until the North Branch leaves it's banks for a few days.  That might be more of a test.  

Here are the new membership rates:

Regular    $270          Age 18-64    Member green fee each round
Senior    $235    Age 65 as of 3/31    Member green fee each round
Gold    $1,340    Age 18-64    
Gold Sr.    $1,300    Age 65 as of 3/31    
Junior Gold    $680    Age 11-17 as of 3/31    
Junior Silver    $360    Age 11-17 as of 3/31    

Plus, in the new era of surcharges for every little thing this new item:

"Beginning in 2014 a $3 surcharge will be applied to every member and non-member round played."

Presumably a "bond financing surcharge."

Sure looks like the costs of playing at Wilmette have gone up a little.

[SL_Solow]

Paul;  I haven't walked the course as changed but if the course did no have significant flooding in June, it is a major improvement.  all of the North Shore courses have had major issues as the amount of rain has been nearly 4 times the norm coming off of a terrible winter and a cold wet spring.

[Howard Riefs]

Sure looks like the costs of playing at Wilmette have gone up a little.

For comparison purposes to Wilmette's neighbor to the north (though the Winnetka course is actually due northeast)

Resident – Season pass to play anytime
Wilmette:  $1,340 (+$3/round)
Winnetka:  $1,090
    http://www.wilmettepark.org/golf/memberships
    http://www.winpark.org/golf-club/course_driving_range/season_pass_rates.aspx

Greens fee (weekends before 3pm)
Wilmette:  $48 (resident/non-resident)
                $51 (non-resident)
Winnetka:  $51 (resident or non-resident)
    http://www.wilmettepark.org/golf/green-fees
    http://www.winpark.org/golf-club/rates.aspx

 

[Paul Gray]

$3 per round, whilst not exactly a lot to pay, is exactly the sort of formalising constraint which puts golf in a precarious predicament. What happens when a local kid has an hour to spare after school and fancies popping down to the golf course?