Local Knowledge

[Jim Tang]

Earlier this year, I was lucky enough to play a round at NGLA, my first visit.  While I thought the course was tremendous, it was obvious to me while playing that I was clueless as to what was going on.  I knew I would need multiple, multiple rounds to fully understand the course, and fully appreciate all the options.  Obviously, local knowledge there is paramount.

My question is threefold:

1.  What courses have you played that you feel required a lot of local knowledge?

2.  If you have multiple rounds on said course(s), how many rounds did it take for you to feel like you fully understood the course?

3.  What did you learn?

[Matt_Cohn]

1. Black Horse at Bayonet Black Horse near Monterey.

2. I've only played it twice. I would think that after 10 rounds I'd have it pretty under control, if I were paying close attention.

3. I haven't learned it yet but I'll say what makes it such a local knowledge based course. First, the greens are unlike any others I've played in Northern California in that they have a lot of grain, but it doesn't grow in a consistent direction or even always with the slopes - though it usually does grow downhill. Reading the grain alone would take a lot of experience. Second, the greens are complicated in their shapes and slopes, so various hole locations suggest different types of shots and different angles of attack, different "safe" sides and bailouts, etc. A back right pin favors a left miss while a middle right pin favors a right miss - that kind of stuff. Third, the wind and weather are real variables there.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

I'm surprised you would start this thread without mentioning Ballyneal.  All of my courses are built to reward local knowledge, but I think that one has the most of any.

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

I need at least 3-4 rounds before  I start to feel at all comfortable on a course I have not previously played on.

Given that, for example, Doak courses are spread around the globe and thus not too many people are going to become intimate with many of his courses (or for the general golfing population even one of them) I wonder about the following.

If you are going play a course only once on your "trip of  a lifetime" is there a lot to be gained by doing a thorough study of the course from the web and sites like this one.  Would that be in any way a sensible substitute for the lack of local knowledge?

My inclination is to do this study but the downside is that the ability to recall what I have so carefully stored away will be irretrievable in the heat of battle!

Cheers Colin

[Tom_Doak]

If you are going play a course only once on your "trip of  a lifetime" is there a lot to be gained by doing a thorough study of the course from the web and sites like this one.  Would that be in any way a sensible substitute for the lack of local knowledge?

Colin:

Most of the things I would classify as "local knowledge" are subtleties which wouldn't get a mention in most course reviews -- for example, see John Kirk's commentary on how to approach the different hole locations on the 8th at Ballyneal, in the Ballyneal photo thread.

Some info like that is found here, if you dig deep enough, but only for the occasional golf hole.

My courses are meant to be played more than once.  If you only play them once, you will walk away knowing you missed a lot.

[Joel_Stewart]

1. Black Horse at Bayonet Black Horse near Monterey.

2. I've only played it twice. I would think that after 10 rounds I'd have it pretty under control, if I were paying close attention.

And you still would be disappointed.  Who would want to play that course 10 times.

Seems like the more I play Cypress Point the more interesting it gets.  Problem is I'm thinking too much. I'm going back next week and am just going to let it fly.

[Lester George]

Ballyhack

Lester

[Mark_Rowlinson]

You can pick up all sorts of general local knowledge if you play a course with a member, even if only once. 'Remember, all greens borrow towards the sea, despite appearances.' 'From the tee there's more room on the left, but the approach shots to the greens are harder.' 'The greens are slower when the tide is in.' 'Aim down the right. Even if you miss the fairway you'll get a friendly bounce.' 'Aim 20 yards right of the marker post, you'll get more run on landing.' And so on....

[David Cronheim]

I'll give my pick to Onwentsia in Lake Forest, IL (C.B. MacDonald). I've played the course maybe 15 times now and the first few times it absolutely destroyed me. There's nothing particularly "tricked up" about the golf course - it's all right in front of you, no blind shots. However, the green complexes are incredibly sloping and many of the lines off the best tees are not readily apparent. It's a fantastic golf course and one that really requires you to think you way around it. It really rewards players who can shape and flight shots into the greens to utilize the slopes on the putting surfaces to get the ball close.

Tom, didn't you do the redesign there when they removed all the trees a number of years back? I'd love to hear your thoughts on the course or your favorite hole there, as there really isn't one "signature" hole.

[Bill_McBride]

You can pick up all sorts of general local knowledge if you play a course with a member, even if only once. 'Remember, all greens borrow towards the sea, despite appearances.' 'From the tee there's more room on the left, but the approach shots to the greens are harder.' 'The greens are slower when the tide is in.' 'Aim down the right. Even if you miss the fairway you'll get a friendly bounce.' 'Aim 20 yards right of the marker post, you'll get more run on landing.' And so on....

 'From the tee there's more room on the left, but the approach shots to the greens are harder.'

Ahh the Old Course!   A puzzle to be solved.  Is local knowledge more important anywhere?

[Jud_T]

I'd say Kingsley has a fair amount of local knowledge.  Hell, I'm still not sure I've figured it out...

[JMEvensky]

Couldn't you make the argument that the more local knowledge required,the more interesting the course?

If there was ever an overarching goal for a course architect,local knowledge required would seem to be a good one.

[Mike Hendren]

Lookout Mountain Country Club in a landslide.  The 7th and 15th greens among others are totally befuddling.