How do you view Seve's parking lot shot?

[Steve Salmen]

I'll remember Seve for the way he treated Miguel Angel Martin, his own countryman.

[mike_beene]

there is a lot more luck in any golf championship than we care to admit.Just last week Bradley hit some shots that barely cleared the water and ended up great.These are two or three shot swings.The wind gusts.Luck,skill and how you react to the hand dealt all matter.

[Bob_Huntley]

I'll remember Seve for the way he treated Miguel Angel Martin, his own countryman.

Steve,

Do tell.

Bob

[Carl Nichols]

I'll remember Seve for the way he treated Miguel Angel Martin, his own countryman.

Steve,

Do tell.

Bob

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/axed-martin-points-the-finger-at-ballesteros-1237447.html

[Mike_Clayton]

JME,

Do I think the players begrudged him the drop?
Not at all - he was under a car and he simply got a drop away from the car.He had no different a lie or a shot.

[Mark Chaplin]

Seve won five majors that is no fluke or lucky drop.

Martin hadn't even started chipping let alone hitting shots 22 days before the RC started

[Sean_A]

Honest questions, so try to answer them honestly:

Do you think it was one of the luckiest breaks and luckiest shots of all-time? Should he have been "penalized" for such a wayward tee shot?

Or do you view it as a well-played recovery shot?

Do you think Seve's fellow competitors felt he got an undeserved break and that he was an undeserving champion?

Would any of your views change if it were a hack hitting out of the parking lot and you were playing him in a match, standing in the middle of the fairway?

To me, the answers to these questions get to the heart of how you view golf course architecture.

George

It was a good break, but the recovery shot was no big deal - very straight forward.

I don't know what the competitors felt.

I see stupid recoveries all the time from terrible shots.  Its part of golf and imo should be a very important part of golf. 

Concerning Seve's ultra-competiveness; yes, I think he got away with shit because he pressed officials hard.  So did Monty, but I never saw anybody get away with shit like Tiger getting the crowd to move a boulder!

Being involved in the axing of Martin was a low point in Seve's career.  If he wasn't involved, he should have publicly stood up for Martin.  Making the Ryder Cup could be a make or break deal for many pros at the time in Eurpope and to take that decision to play away from the player was wrong, especially given the concept of the Ryder Cup being to foster good will and comradeship between pros.  Winning meant more than anything else to him.  That may have been is biggest strength and weakness. 

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

I'll remember Seve for the way he treated Miguel Angel Martin, his own countryman.

Steve,

Do tell.

Bob

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/axed-martin-points-the-finger-at-ballesteros-1237447.html

Seve's career was full of controversy, many highs and many lows.   Putting all the ‘blame’ for that one onto Seve and then making your mind up about him as a result, seems a strange  perspective to take summarising  one of  the greatest characters , and careers, in all of Golf.

[Martin Toal]

The 'car park' shot pissed off Hale Irwin, so it can't be all bad.

I don't blame him a bit for Miguel Angel Martin, and the fact he was a countryman is irrelevant. Seve wanted to bring his best players to the event and Martin was possibly still crocked and certainly not match fit.

[Bill_McBride]

For those not familiar with it...like me jsut a few minutes ago, here is the story..

When Ballesteros won his first major at the 1979 British Open at Royal Lytham and St. Annes, he deliberately hit a ball into a parking lot on the 16th hole on the final round to take advantage of the prevailing winds that day, then hit a sand wedge to within 20 feet of the hole.

I don't recall the "deliberate" part.   Seve was notoriously wild, an early proponent of the "bomb and gouge" strategy.   I think he knocked it way off line by mistake, was lucky it wasn't OB, then had the great vision and skill to pull off the recovery shot. 

[Mike_Clayton]

Let's not forget how beautifully he played the hole in 1988. 2 iron, 9 iron to 6 inches.

[Tim Martin]

I'll remember Seve for the way he treated Miguel Angel Martin, his own countryman.

Steve,

Do tell.

Bob

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/axed-martin-points-the-finger-at-ballesteros-1237447.html

Seve's career was full of controversy, many highs and many lows.   Putting all the ‘blame’ for that one onto Seve and then making your mind up about him as a result, seems a strange  perspective to take summarising  one of  the greatest characters , and careers, in all of Golf.

Tony- Agreed and not fair based on his body of work and contributions to the game of golf. I certainly understand not liking the way he handled that incident with Martin but although not politically correct the hyper competitiveness that defined Seve won out.

[Matthew Rose]

Now that the great man has left us, the legend will only grow from here.

I have no problem with that... as others have said, it really kind of defines his whole career.

[Mark Chaplin]

To define Seve's career over an incident not fully of his making whilst Ryder Cup captain shows a massive lack of understanding of his brilliance. Only 13 players in history have won more majors, Mickleson, VJ, Floyd, Els, Norman and Locke cannot match Seve's record. Also 13 of his 50 wins were by 4 strokes or more.

Could part of the problem with Seve in the US be in him being the first player who didn't "need" the US tour?

[JC Jones]

I'll remember Seve for the way he treated Miguel Angel Martin, his own countryman.

What does MAM being from Spain have to do with anything?  The US Captain has to make decisions about players from the US at every cup, should we skewer him for doing that to his own "countrymen"?

The implication that MAM should have received different or even special treatment because he is a Spaniard would be offensive to every other country on the European side.

[jeffwarne]

Seve drove the ball beautifully , particularly at Augusta and Open venues where his creativity was demanded/rewarded.
Yes he also had the ability to recover(often spectacularly) when he drove poorly, but that ability to recover has led some to falsely assume he couldn't drive it at all.
His play at the end of his carreer unfortunately cemented that reputation, as many had not witnessed his wonderful driving and ballstriking earlier in his career.

Like Tiger, he was often near the lead when NOT striking it his best, while others would simply miss the cut and not be on display
in the final groups

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

Lumping Ballesteros in with the "Bomb and Gouge" crowd is very misleading. I think you got the "Bomb" part right but his recovery shots were not sand wedges into the middle of the greens. His ability to get up and down, from either a greenside bunker or 200+ yards from a forest, defines who he was as a player. In addition, he was playing with a small, persimmon headed driver at his peak, not some titanium headed monstrosity that was roughly the size of my first apartment in Chicago.

That said, it was so much fun watching him go 100% after a driver, ending in that reverse "C" or finishing with the head of his driver above his head and aimed at the target.

To this day, he is the only golfer I've ever paid to watch and it was money well spent.

David, I was just using that "B&G" phrase for convenience.  I think bottom line is that Seve was so supremely self-confident that he knew he could get up and down from anywhere, and therefore adopted his fearless, swashbuckling style. 

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

Lumping Ballesteros in with the "Bomb and Gouge" crowd is very misleading. I think you got the "Bomb" part right but his recovery shots were not sand wedges into the middle of the greens. His ability to get up and down, from either a greenside bunker or 200+ yards from a forest, defines who he was as a player. In addition, he was playing with a small, persimmon headed driver at his peak, not some titanium headed monstrosity that was roughly the size of my first apartment in Chicago.

That said, it was so much fun watching him go 100% after a driver, ending in that reverse "C" or finishing with the head of his driver above his head and aimed at the target.

To this day, he is the only golfer I've ever paid to watch and it was money well spent.

David, I was just using that "B&G" phrase for convenience.  I think bottom line is that Seve was so supremely self-confident that he knew he could get up and down from anywhere, and therefore adopted his fearless, swashbuckling style. 

Duly noted and I stand corrected.....

No correction required, just fun to recall seeing Seve play!

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

It was certainly not as off line as the two drives Phil hit on the back nine at 10 and 11 last time he won the Masters....was he undeserving?

[Mark Pearce]

I'll remember Seve for the way he treated Miguel Angel Martin, his own countryman.

Not responsive to the OP so both cheap and nasty.

Interesting, too, that you chose not to express this opinion in any of the posts following Seve's death, which, would have been a far more appropriate place for this post, if it is appropriate at all.  Perhaps scared of the backlash?

[Kalen Braley]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

It indeed sounds like there is a bit of "re-writing history" at play here.