[Alex Miller]

Which do you prefer?

Bart Bradley's description of Old Mac was pretty accurate I thought. It was not the golf I was used to, and sometimes that was uncomfortable. Looking through photos of NGLA that feeling resonated too. Many blind/disorienting tee shots, but also a course that I want to play from looking at the pictures (screw history and ratings).

The opposite would be golf courses that may be more traditional and laid out in front of the golfer. I find this true of C&C courses from BT and pics of SH and Friars Head.

I want to play both types of courses, and have enjoyed both (though I would like to give Old Mac another try), but why do they both work, and is one better than the other?

[Tom_Doak]

Alex:

I thought you'd use Rees Jones as your counterpoint, not Coore & Crenshaw.

Bandon Trails [since you've played it] has several holes that are disturbing or counter-intuitive:  The 4th with its drive over the ridge, the 5th with that wild green you can't see from the tee, the 6th with another drive over a ridge, a driver-length par-3 [the 12th], the 14th, the 18th.  It's not as wide open as Old Macdonald, so the good player feels like others are punished adequately for off-line shots -- indeed, that is the part that good players find most disturbing, the idea that opponents are getting away with bad shots and still making pars, while they are hitting greens and making bogeys.  But Bandon Trails is hardly what I'd call "conventional" or "straightforward".

[Alex Miller]

Alex:

I thought you'd use Rees Jones as your counterpoint, not Coore & Crenshaw.

Bandon Trails [since you've played it] has several holes that are disturbing or counter-intuitive:  The 4th with its drive over the ridge, the 5th with that wild green you can't see from the tee, the 6th with another drive over a ridge, a driver-length par-3 [the 12th], the 14th, the 18th.  It's not as wide open as Old Macdonald, so the good player feels like others are punished adequately for off-line shots -- indeed, that is the part that good players find most disturbing, the idea that opponents are getting away with bad shots and still making pars, while they are hitting greens and making bogeys.  But Bandon Trails is hardly what I'd call "conventional" or "straightforward".

Agreed, it's not conventional or straight forward, but it is still a course that I am comfortable on. You're point is well taken with 4,5,6 & 18. I think blindness is really the only disorienting/uncomfortable element that is forced upon the player there.

To contrast, I think Oakmont (have not played) is also probably disturbing, but in the manner that it does not give the player options. You sometimes feel uncomfortable there too because there is nowhere to miss.

I just find it interesting that this is a common feature of courses that I admire, yet the idea of feeling at home on a golf course is also praised. Are the two mutually exclusive, or is one more powerful than the other?

[Bill_McBride]

That really big and deep bunker on BT #13 is pretty disturbing too, when you're out in the left side of the fairway with a 7-iron in hand!   There are a lot of good "moments" out there, where you say "nice!".  #15 tee shot comes to mind. 

[Garland Bayley]

Agreed, it's not conventional or straight forward, but it is still a course that I am comfortable on. You're point is well taken with 4,5,6 & 18. I think blindness is really the only disorienting/uncomfortable element that is forced upon the player there.
...

All the courses give you the chance of very uncomfortable stances in the fairway. I doubt you get so many extreme stances at your usual courses.

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