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Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2011, 05:14:01 PM »

Niall

Pyramidal orchid in Kintyre, no not seen them there but once abundant on The Castle Course. That is  until some idiot came along and bulldozed them all clean off the site. Makes you want to use a Caddie, but they cost money so will continue carrying my own clubs when I can.

What we do in Scotland to save a penny or two ;)

Melvyn

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2011, 07:30:12 PM »

Niall

Pyramidal orchid in Kintyre, no not seen them there but once abundant on The Castle Course. That is  until some idiot came along and bulldozed them all clean off the site. Makes you want to use a Caddie, but they cost money so will continue carrying my own clubs when I can.

What we do in Scotland to save a penny or two ;)

Melvyn


If only you actually WERE in Scotland, me dearie...
 ;)
One of the Genuiners.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2011, 07:55:25 PM »


Martin

Some of us have to go south to make certain that money keeps pouring into Scotland from England

I’m still trying to work off the additional cost for The Castle Course,  some will never understand my sacrifice, but a man’s got to do what a man got to do.

Dictated by Melvyn in the presence of The Governor of the Tower of London.



Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2011, 08:02:50 PM »
Melv,
Like some kind of weird Terminatoresque moment, one day in the near future, King Ecky the First will make you decide your nationality. Enforcers in the form of Kilted steel-bodied robots will visit door-to-door in the Home Counties routing out potential ex-pats for repatriation to the heimat.
You will HAVE to decide....
The FatBaldMark2.
Duf-duf-dufdufduf.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2011, 11:45:01 PM »
Niall,

That post was not just aimed at you, though you did reference the "group" when offering a conclusion that DID NOT square with the reponse ratios. Melvyn too was enjoying mentioning the surge of overwelming agreement (rare that it is according to him) for his take, which was hardly the case.

Thank goodness there are those Scots(and countless others) that value the pyramidal orchid AND their caddies. They also understand their value to the visiting golfer AND the local economy. The caddie dynamic provides one of the best seasonal jobs in Scotland, especially for the younger caddies!

Of course that apparently means little to those it doesn't impact directly. How many extra pints or meals do you think veteran caddies' suggestions have helped... put heavy pounds in establishment owners hands and their help? That memorable pull cart sure adds greatly to the economy and social golf fabric of Scottish golf.

Variety is the spice of life.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 11:53:24 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Brian Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2011, 12:13:14 AM »
I think it's that the green is exposed on top of that ridge and dries out quickly, then there's no real interior slope in the green or surrounds to slow it down - we all went over that green so much on the trip that it was comical.

"on #16 unless it's into the wind, the 2nd plays much shorter than you think." 

Brian Freeman -

I have played Dornoch many times and I totally agree with you regarding the 2nd shot into #16. Even though you are hitting well uphill, that shot plays much closer to the actual yardage rather than the one or two clubs extra you think you might need. I have yet to figure out why that is.

DT

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2011, 04:42:42 AM »
Kris

Never thought of it that way, that golfers wouldn't eat or drink after a round if they hadn't used a caddie.  ::)

Niall

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2011, 08:21:51 AM »


I am taking the “Fifth”, but I do reserve the right to agree with someone from time to time ;D

Melvyn

PS What about all those others who agreed with me are they going to be cast into the Pit (to those Sassenachs among you I am referring to DEep Pot BUNkers  the likes of The Road Hole bunker) never to save their round unless blessed from on High. Come to think of it I’m not that keen on the Fifth I’ll settle for the old Seventeen again – so there you have it, I take the 17th so there. :P


Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2011, 09:09:10 AM »
Niall,

I guess you've never had a shite meal in Scotland or anywhere else when you haven't been there before. If you don't think that has a dampening or negative effect on a  golfing visitor's memory or appraisal of a place...well apply for a position with the Scottish Tourist Board, which has been bungling it, bigtime, forever.

A perfect, personal example. First time in St. Andrew's, 1998, that initial night out walking the town,  at the direction of a well-attired local we chat up on the street, I go with fellow American golfers ( yes we're caddies, the scourges) to Ma Bells for a meal and some beverages. The crab cakes, which were extortionate, came out undercooked, cold, and were about the sizes of peas. Some pathetic excuse for a chicken entree arrived next. I sent them both back and they were struck from the bill. The food was a joke. At least they poured a decent pint!

It wasn't just me, NO ONE had anything good to say about the food. Most in our group aren't snooty"foodies," so the expectations certainly weren't unreasonable. Do you think we went away with the thought of setting foot in that place again for a meal, or offering that as an option to others?

As someone who has listened to well-traveled golfers for a living, close to 25 years as an adult, that has been the BIGGEST criticism of golfing visitors to Scotland....a lot of mediocre food!

Fortunately,  in general things have gotten much better there, as the standard has improved. You can get a crap meal anywhere, that's why getting sound advice, which believe it or not can often come from even the lowly caddie, can make or break how one comes away with memories of a place or experience. The St. Andrew's caddies quickly put us straight on the better dining choices in the town, and we ate and drank quite well the rest of our stay.

Another example of astute caddie advice that trip greeted us at Dornoch. We were not impressed with our original lodging choice. One of our caddies, after the first round, hearing of our concerns, took us personally to another hotel and set us up...with a better rate for a far superior setting. Our group had such a great time we extended our stay in Dornoch two extra days and even changed our flight back home to as not miss out on our other stops.

As Pebble Beach caddies, we went away over the moon about how awesome Scotland was as a golf destination. We went over that year in late October: the weather was brisk and a bit harsh frankly. We could have cared less.  Our stay was so good, the people soooo friendly to us...that trip was a 10! The various caddies we met were a big part of making it so wonderful. How many golfers do you think were told by us since, "You've GOT TO GO to Scotland!" Thousands. That multiplier effect, usually overlooked by most, is another example of the many benefits memorable caddie experiences deliver economically for golfing destinations...if the overall exerience is positive!

If one can't see how those types of calls by caddies can often make ALL the difference in how golfing visitors come away feeling about an experience, they're in denial, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 10:31:51 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Anthony Gray

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2011, 10:19:06 AM »


  Didn't Old Tom start off as a caddie?

  Anthony


Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2011, 10:25:58 AM »

Kris

You cannot put all that down to caddies. Many on this site have offers other Members help and information on nearly every subject. I get the best part of two or three dozen e-mails or PM during the year asking for information on St Andrews, where to stay and eat. As for a bad experience, that will happen anywhere, even at home from time to time.

I spent a week in Rome 10 years ago as a big thank you to my wife for all her help and support over the years. We discarded all the advice on places to stay and also decided to walk everywhere. I had the best 7 days of my life, my wife totally enjoyed herself we stayed in a great hotel near the Spanish Steps. We went to many small but great restaurants, one I remember was really good, food excellent and massive portions. Their wine list was, well we enjoyed a couple of bottle and a few brandies afterwards. Could not fault anything, the prices clear  - oh yes the wine started at just over £20 for the House Red going up to around the one thousand mark, we settled on two bottle that coast circa £100 each, worth every penny. That was our second last night, so we decided to look at the recommendation given to us and choice what was meant to be one of the best outside street restaurants in Rome. Long story short, the street was poor, tables in the gutters, scenery poor in fact I would not have recommended this place to anyone. Thinking the best food would be a steak we both had one, hell it was crap as much fat as meat it was not enjoyable, I left over half and that was the meat not the fat. On the way back to the Hotel my wife said she did not feel too good and as I neared the Hotel I started to feel unwell, - the story did not end there we had the worst night ever taking turns to be ill and use the toilet, we drank the room out of water and all soft drinks. Flying back at lunch that day was questionable, but we made it home in the end. Having said that we look back and love the trip, 90% of the holiday was just brilliant, and I would go to Rome again. We did not go to the Vatican just passed it and was shocked to see the junk and crap quality that was being sold to the RC visitors. No I would give the Vatican a miss next time, yet it was greatly recommended, but Rome had more , much more to offer.

As for Caddies, they should only carry your bags, they should not help, however it has now regarded as part of their job.  As for human kindness many people around the world offer what you seem to believe is only available from a caddie. On TOC if playing with three strangers you will give and receive information on many subjects as you play the round that does not relate to TOC, that’s us being human. We, well most of us like to help, are willing to put ourselves out to help others, even this so called Troll, it has zero to do with being a caddie. However I understand your point to Niall, but feel that you somehow are looking at it with a chip on your shoulder re Caddies. For the record I like Caddies, I speak and drink with the odd caddie when in St Andrews, I have no problem, nor do they with me as many enjoy playing the game as I do, certainly if it’s a new experience on a course they have not played before.

Play using Caddies or not, take advice or not, but as with my feeling to distance/electronic aids I want to face the challenge on my own, that’s the name of the game the golfer trying to combat the course to sink a little ball down a hole. If I am staying a short time I still want the pleasure of losing my virginity but unaided. Afterwards if I know I will be leaving and not returning for many months/years I may like to have a caddie take me round the course his way ( remember that HIS WAY), it may well open your eyes or not to the options, however I feel if you play Scottish courses (a lot or live in Scotland), you are akin to many of their special natures so see no need for assistance.

I will give this to you, Caddies have more of a place on a golf course than distance aids or carts, but silence is indeed Golden when playing golf (wish some caddies would remember that and talk quietly).

Melvyn

Anthony, Old Tom caddied for The Earl of Eglinton who was the reason he moved to Prestwick and he alos names his 3rd son after him J O F Morris

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2011, 10:55:55 AM »
Thanks to all.  I'm going to make it a hybrid - caddies at Aberdeen and Cruden Bay, and enjoy my virgin voyage solo on the rest.  Will keep you all abreast of my take on things when I return.   Cheers.

If you don't take a caddy, a Strokesaver will be very helpful in finding your way around. 

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2011, 04:22:10 PM »
Melvyn,

Well at least you put a caddie ahead of inanimate objects as permissable on a golf course, so maybe there's a little hope.

No one, unless your only picking selective elements of what I write, could come to the conclusion that I infer ONLY caddies can share knowledge or area advice with golfing visitors. My points are to the title of the thread, which are dead on from confirmation of others who have posted expressing similar experiences, and I've LIVED them as well.

Naill and I are fine thank you. We may differ on some of our views, which is fine. I will always counter those that wish to marginalize what quality caddie experiences can deliver, on so many levels, wth as many examples as are needed, to help illunminate others. Remember Melvyn, MANY others read these posts. If all they saw, for example, were the proclamations by the two of you, that all was well...bag the caddie(pun intended)...A SERIOUS omission, of the reality that they can be of immense help...could result.

Your repeatedly have expressed your belief that caddies should provide their service in a mute manner. Do you think they are that incapable of tactful, appropriate communication?  Did the Earl ask Old Tom nothing on their rounds together?

I hate to break it to you, but some caddies are EASILY as intelligent as most on this site, particularly on golf-related matters. Many who caddie CHOOSE to do it. If one colors their view of someone's acumen or worth based on their station in life, and its appears there are a fair few who do, then that's a shame.

We have half a dozen, maybe more, on this GCA membership, who are caddies. Numerous others in the tree house can point to caddie golf as providing them a significant introduction to the game that lead to their sustained development and appreciation of its many facets. I assume that they are now to be viewed as second tier contributors due to that reality.

Our own Mr. John Lyon, who just graduated from Colgate, has caddied summers regularly the past few years. He studied abroad, was smitten with the English courses around London, even was deemed worthy enough to join Deal I believe, and his steady stream of reports and observations, chronicled on this site during his time there, were as insightful as anything I've seen posted.  Guess he's just a shut up and carry the bag level guy as well.

There are hundreds of smart, talented young men and women caddying in the U.S. and elsewhere. Rich Ramsey(sp), who was a caddie at Royal Aberdeen, won the U.S. Amateur a few years back, with a Taylor Made putter given to him by an American golfer he worked for earlier that year. I'm sure he'd have nothing to add if he spoke when one took him when playing around Royal Aberdeen.

That's what I find so unfortunate about the views of many folks, who really can't see past the fact there are many VERY productive folks who DO, OR HAVE the caddie dynamic to thank for helping them, AND others they've touched, enjoy those life experiences. If we only point to negatives, it's easy to dismiss anything as not worth sampling.

There really is nothing like caddie golf offered by any other game. It's given more to golf than any other single source...WORLDWIDE.  
Doubt me? Remove everything from the game that's been touched by caddie roots, including
the courses and those that had a hand in building them. What's left? It's irrefutable.

Some will  always remain unconvinced, content to keep throwing up rejections into the bunker-face of reality. If, however, one really looks at the game's history, and adds to that the current contributions made by caddies, despite abysmal support from it's administrative bodies and other apathetic folks who claim to revere golf, yet exclude the caddie dynamic as relevant... the conclusions are fairly obvious.

I am heartened, and take great solace in the fact, that as I write this today, hundreds of caddie rounds with golfers worldwide, INCLUDING numerous, first-time visiting golfers in Scotland, are partaking in a bond that has defined the game for centuries.

Cheers,
Kris 8)


« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 10:35:47 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2011, 04:28:45 PM »
One person's preferences doesn't matter much in the global scheme of things but with very rare exceptions golf itself is the full experience that I desire. Not that the caddies I've met are unintellegent, disrespectful or unpleasant to converse with but I'm not really out there to be entertained or educated.

The problem isn't so much if it were me playing golf and Kris caddieing. Perhaps the company would be very welcome. But put four golfers and either two or four caddies together for several hours and the experience can easily become almost entirely a verbal one (not counting the voices in my head talking to me during my backswing). I know some people really get into that aspect but for me it is usually a bit too much.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2011, 05:37:56 PM »


Kris

Caddies carry the bags, today they are expected to do more, I am not anti-caddie in any way but I have come across some who are loud, feel they know more about a course that you do and so are prone to tell you not advise you. Others are loud not caring if other Members of the party want their information or not.  At least with a range finder or GPS you can turn the bloody thing off.

I’ll give you that they are the minority but still it ruins a day’s golfing and having paid to play that’s what I want to do. My game is one of facing the challenge and doing so unaided because that’s the way of the game and no bullshit or crap from others will ever change that. So your game needs help, great get help, if it’s the Caddies Help, go for it. But do not take your eyes of the actual service the caddies are there to provide.

As for Old Tom and The Earl, you fully understand first the class system of the Victorian Age and the mind set of past generations to make your statement.

I again say do not use a caddie on a virgin course, well us a caddie but ask for no input on that fist virgin round. Just go out and enjoy your experience, then after lunch when you do the 2nd 18 take your Caddie and ask him for advice.
If you are using a Caddie I presume that you will be doing the traditional 36 holes on the course. Ah 36 Holes, do many who come to Scotland have time, alas no but that’s the best way of experience links and our old courses many designed with the knowledge of the wind, well that of 100 to 150 years ago. It seem that it’s more important to notch up courses rather that to savour and understand them, which goes a long way in wondering why some have joined this site on golf course architecture. It certainly takes me more than one round just to start to understand the course, but one round is all many of your guys allow due to understandable your timetable. Again volume against quality, yet again quality loses.

Nothing in this world is more enjoyable on a golf course than playing it the first time and hell I want to play it unaided. But one round means score is the important thing in many a visitors mind, perhaps to boast later to friends back home, yet at what cost to the golfer, his golfing holiday and ultimately to his own self-respect.   

I have no problems with caddies, they do a good job, but when it comes to information I feel that should be beyond their remit.  Outside information should be banned be it via Caddie, distance markers or electronic gadgets as a golfer should be able to play the game unaided and only then should it be allowed on the scorecard. But we know modern golf is easy because that’s how modern golfers want to play, it’s down to their game and the level of self-respect they
want to declare.

You need a Caddie to play your round of golf, then do so, many do not, but as you said this topic is about caddies for first-times in Scotland.  I still say no, try the first virgin round unaided then use the caddie for the afternoon or later round to give you a good score to show your buddies back home.

Melvyn

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2011, 06:22:28 PM »
Kris,
You are committed that's for sure! You possibly think I should be committed for having such a negative view of caddying!!

I was speed reading your replies regarding "Caddies for first-timers in Scotland" and of course may well have gotten the wrong end of the stick but after seeing the following (slightly out of context!!) quotes

"Scotland....a lot of mediocre food!"
"........ had a shite meal in Scotland"

I am amazed that any any of the guttersnipes and urchins hanging around the starter's box were well enough nourished to struggle around 18 holes!

However as an ex-caddy let me tell the forum that the finest meal I have had in Scotland was at at Cafe Tabou, 4 St John's Pl. Perth!! See you are wrong Colin....even NLE caddies can be useful!

Orra best,

Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2011, 06:30:26 PM »

Troll was bad enough but urchin and guttersnipe are old friends, so I will forgive you that one Colin (well Carnoustie, I have to make some allowances plus the fact of being an ex Caddie - right ;) )

Melvyn

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2011, 01:13:13 AM »
Colin,

Speed reading can be dangerous! ;D  I can say without reservation, as I'm married to a Scot and have visited for lengthy stays over the years, some of the finest meals of my life have been in Scotland. One needs to know where to go. Visiting golfers often get fine tips from caddies on where to dine or put up during their stay. Good experiences lead to fond memories and positive thoughts being expressed encouraging others to visit.
From your take on caddies, it's hard to imagine you got much out of the experience when doing it youself.
It's not for everybody, that's for sure. It can be a tough job done well, especially in difficult conditions.

You're spared from commitment...for now.

Melvyn,
You have your take and I have mine. Enjoy your golf the way you see fit. I have played hundreds of round without a caddie and have NEVER said that is the only way to play. That's the beauty of golf; one can play it in many forms. Sadly, most visitors can't afford the: time, money or stamina to play each course twice during a destination golf trip. That is why when available, they appreciate the opportunity to engage a caddie to perhaps aid(oh my GOD, I used the word, forgive me) in their enjoyment.

Brent,

Speaking to your point about two or four caddies scurrying about, I've often wondered why virtually all Scottish courses insist on singles. Now the conditions over there can be brutal and on a tough day, unless players know how to work WITH a caddie, that could be a nightmare experience for double caddies and their players. Most players like the one caddie, one player mantra they use there, but others, as evidenced by some posts here and other remarks I've heard, cite the "distractions" that can arise from that approach. It all comes down to expectations in the end.


It's really about the enjoyment of the golfing day. To those who want no Scottish caddie...have a blast in the solo effort! To those who may wish to experience one...greet them warmly, tell them how you like to play, and work WITH them. You'll be glad you did!

Cheers,
Kris 8)


"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Jim Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2011, 09:55:27 PM »
Follow up from recent trip:

Played the Castle Course, Aberdeen, and Cruden Bay with caddies
Played Dornoch and Castle Stuart without

I can unequivocably say that caddies added nothing to my experience.  They were (all but 1) college students whose interest was in a few bucks - one of whom said overtly it was going to today's "weed" - and only one of them was an accomplished golfer.  They generally used GPS machines to measure yardage and had very little to say about history, perferred playing angles, etc. 

Plus, the yardage guides provided by the clubs were basically all I needed.  And I agree with those who said that there's something about experiencing a course like Cruden Bay blindly - it is an absolute joy and roller coaster ride.  My suggestion is to play a course twice in a day, and by the second time through you'll feel like you have a fairly good grasp.

Unless I'm significantly fatter (or richer), my next Scotland trip will be completely caddie free.

Cheers

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2011, 11:06:03 PM »
Niall,

I guess you've never had a shite meal in Scotland or anywhere else when you haven't been there before. If you don't think that has a dampening or negative effect on a  golfing visitor's memory or appraisal of a place...well apply for a position with the Scottish Tourist Board, which has been bungling it, bigtime, forever.

A perfect, personal example. First time in St. Andrew's, 1998, that initial night out walking the town,  at the direction of a well-attired local we chat up on the street, I go with fellow American golfers ( yes we're caddies, the scourges) to Ma Bells for a meal and some beverages. The crab cakes, which were extortionate, came out undercooked, cold, and were about the sizes of peas. Some pathetic excuse for a chicken entree arrived next. I sent them both back and they were struck from the bill. The food was a joke. At least they poured a decent pint!

It wasn't just me, NO ONE had anything good to say about the food. Most in our group aren't snooty"foodies," so the expectations certainly weren't unreasonable. Do you think we went away with the thought of setting foot in that place again for a meal, or offering that as an option to others?

As someone who has listened to well-traveled golfers for a living, close to 25 years as an adult, that has been the BIGGEST criticism of golfing visitors to Scotland....a lot of mediocre food!

Fortunately,  in general things have gotten much better there, as the standard has improved. You can get a crap meal anywhere, that's why getting sound advice, which believe it or not can often come from even the lowly caddie, can make or break how one comes away with memories of a place or experience. The St. Andrew's caddies quickly put us straight on the better dining choices in the town, and we ate and drank quite well the rest of our stay.

Another example of astute caddie advice that trip greeted us at Dornoch. We were not impressed with our original lodging choice. One of our caddies, after the first round, hearing of our concerns, took us personally to another hotel and set us up...with a better rate for a far superior setting. Our group had such a great time we entended our stay in Dornoch two extra days and even changed our flight back home to as not miss out on our other stops.

As Pebble Beach caddies, we went away over the moon about how awesome Scotland was as a golf destination. We went over that year in late October: the weather was brisk and a bit harsh frankly. We could have cared less.  Our stay was so good, the people soooo friendly to us...that trip was a 10! The various caddies we met were a big part of making it so wonderful. How many golfers do you think were told by us since, "You've GOT TO GO to Scotland!" Thousands. That multiplier effect, usually overlooked by most, is another example of the many benefits memorable caddie experiences deliver economically for golfing destinations...if the overall exerience is positive!

If one can't see how those types of calls by caddies can often make ALL the difference in how golfing visitors come away feeling about an experience, they're in denial, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Kris 8)

MA BELLS is for English students at unie in St Andrews.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2011, 06:23:10 AM »
And I agree with those who said that there's something about experiencing a course like Cruden Bay blindly - it is an absolute joy and roller coaster ride.  My suggestion is to play a course twice in a day, and by the second time through you'll feel like you have a fairly good grasp.

I hope the trip overall was wonderful for you, Jim. Your comment about twice in a day is dead on. No better way to experience an interesting, out of the oridinary course. It's fun staggering around lin that process of discovery the first time and then, for me at least, there's an even greater joy in those Aha! moments the second time around when things reveal themselves in context. By the end of the day you feel like you've learned something about the place.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2011, 06:28:44 AM »
Jim, Jim,

You'll induce an apoplectic fit in Kris Shreiner if he reads what you've just divulged! They're probably the offspring of the caddies that I used to intermingle with. What's all this business about caddies financing the purchase of  today's "weed". That shouldn't have come as a surprise as Melvyn himself has on a number of occasions and in fact on this thread wished people ".... a good trip".


And Gary,
The poisoning of Sassenach students filling up scarce University places in Scottish Universities, at the expense of  worthy Scots, is an age old device to reduce their winning of University medal. I am astounded to hear it is still extant!
Boy did we use to rail against the Englishmen flooding our Universities with their fancy A-levels and all.
It's not difficult to tell here who was an abject failure as a caddie, failed first year Uni in Scotland and subsequently fled to Australia is it!

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2011, 07:49:01 AM »


Earth calling Colin. Earth calling Colin come in please your trip is over, your number is up, time to cut the grass.

Trip, a little booze, a fine Malt and a gentle smile is all I ask, no drugs or weed. I know Old Tom pushed sand to help the grass grow but that was to play golf upon not smoke, anyway I am a non-smoker, always have been.

Come on Colin, Get off that Cloud, It’s Been a Hard Day’s Night and you need a little Help.

Spaced out, no, not me. All things, well nearly all things, in moderation right.

Melvyn

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies for first-timers in Scotland
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2011, 11:12:12 AM »
Jim,

Hardly a surprise. You obviously had no quality caddie during any round. Except for Royal Aberdeen, the other two courses have no program of quality. RA also has suspect depth of quality. Did you call well ahead to each course you took caddies and ask for the pro and request their best be reserved for you in advance?

Most caddie programs in Scotland are poorly run. Candidate selection is down to whoever turns up..often sent out with little or no training. Without prior confirmation to ensure you'll have a quality caddie, it's pot luck. Being an "accomplished player has little to do with being a quality caddie. It's more about: effort, understanding how to work with your player, sharing the local knowledge with them and aiding in the enjoyment of their day. You had bag carriers, and an out for a spin and a laugh doper...NOT a quality caddie in the lot.

Castle Stuart has no real program to speak of, as I mentioned in my earlier brief. Royal Dornoch probably has the best depth of sound caddies of the courses you played and you passed there.

Your "caddies" on this trip were weak efforts, which was unfortunate.

Jim,

No apoplectic fit at all. Quite the contrary. He had no QUALITY caddie experience. He had similar to what "the offspring of the caddies I used to intermingle with" types would provide. Based on that illuminating quote, I understand TOTALLY your take on caddies.

Cheers,
Kris 8)



« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 11:20:09 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Melvyn Morrow