[Niall C]

The second at Sand Hills (from Ran's profile)

Michael

First look at that photo and I thought it was the 3rd on Gullane no 2. Very similar.

Niall

[Michael Goldstein]

There is a very special one at Cape Kidnappers, I think it is #12?

Also the one at Castle stuart is mint

[Mark Saltzman]

A few from this year:

Sand Hills, Hole 2:




Sand Hills, Hole 13:




Sebonack, Hole 3 (left side of green is skyline):




Shinnecock Hills, Hole 11:




Crystal Downs, Hole 17:






Coppinwood, Hole 1:




Coppinwood, Hole 12:




Mad River Club, Hole 1:

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

Thanks for the photos.

While some have some of  the ingredients to become skyline greens, they lack all of the ingredients.

In some of the photos it would appear that only a little fine tuning would be necessary to convert those holes to spectacular skyline greens

[Mark Saltzman]

Patrick,

Are you saying that all of the holes posted are not skyline greens?  Certainly 2, 13 at Sand Hills are?  And 11 at Shinnecock? And I thought 17 at Crystal Downs?

What are the holes missing?

Thanks.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

Are you saying that all of the holes posted are not skyline greens?  Certainly 2, 13 at Sand Hills are?  And 11 at Shinnecock? And I thought 17 at Crystal Downs?

What are the holes missing?
Mark,

It's not what they're missing, it's what they're not missing, and that's "backdrop"

In some cases, the removal of distant trees would convert those holes to nearly perfect skyline greens.

Arcola is a perfect example of how all the elements of a great skyline green can exist, but backround features/trees prevent the hole from being a "true" or "pure" skyline green.  Once the offending feature/trees are removed, the hole has ALL of the elements that comprise a skyline green.

In Arcola's case, it's a great skyline green, a real architectural asset.



cases

Thanks.

[Michael Ryan]

I wish I had a picture to post, but Newport CC's 9th green is a great example....

Mike

[Tim Martin]

I wish I had a picture to post, but Newport CC's 9th green is a great example....

Mike

+1-A great golf hole with the OZ like clubhouse farther up the slope and to the right. Anything that is over the green is absolutely on ice coming back down the slope.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

Can you post photos of Arcola's 4th ?

[Bradley Anderson]

We just cleared all the trees away from behind the 16th at Bittersweet Golf Club to expose some skyline.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69053245@N06/6278275014/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69053245@N06/6278287684/in/photostream/

[Mark Saltzman]

Skyline?



(Shinnecock Hills, Hole 9)

[George Freeman]

Probably the best I've seen in #3 at Fishers Island


From further back


Diamante

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think skyline greens test the courage of a golfer's convictions.

In most cases, the yardage is known, but the degree to which the green sits above the golfer requires interpolation and feel, add to that, the fact that most skyline greens are elevated to the degree that they're subject to more pronounced breezes/wind, with the icing on the cake of uncertainty regarding the unknown features that lurk nearby and long.

There's an element of precision that's required and an added fear of the unknown, should you not be able to plan AND execute properly.

I'm surprised that you don't see more skyline greens as I would think that their natural footpad/setting would be self evident to most architects.

[Bill Brightly]

Pat,

I think you are absolutely right about increasing uncertainty. If you are playing Arcola's hole into the wind, you may be fairly well protected from the wind standing over your ball in the fairway. It may feel like a 1/2 club wind, but you are wondering if it is 1 or 1 1/2 clubs when the ball reaches it's apex. And the uphill slope is severe, you wonder if you need to add more than 1 club for the elevation. You may add all that up and have 2 or 3 clubs more than you would normally hit from that distance, and THAT will definitely give you pause and make you wonder if the flatter club will stop on the green.

[Jud_T]

I think Lawsonia might have several strong contenders if they went nuts with the chainsaws.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

I think skyline green holes present far more in the way of challenges than just the visual presented by a lack of a backdrop.

You cited a number of them, that's why I don't understand why clubs who have the basic elements don't take advantage of their uniqueness by refining them to their ultimate state, as Arcola finally did after about 10-20 years of prodding on the part of myself and a few members.

[Bill Brightly]

I would think that you would have to do the initial routing with building a skyline green a priority, or a lucky accident, which I think is the case at Arcola. My guess is that you would have to save the highest point on the property as a green site, and that seems to be where many clubhouses are located. Mountain Ridge might be a good example of that, right? Or could the 18th be a skyline green with the current location of the green and clubhouse?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I would think that you would have to do the initial routing with building a skyline green a priority, or a lucky accident, which I think is the case at Arcola. My guess is that you would have to save the highest point on the property as a green site, and that seems to be where many clubhouses are located. Mountain Ridge might be a good example of that, right? Or could the 18th be a skyline green with the current location of the green and clubhouse?

Bill,

If the 9th green were moved back about 40-50 yards (not a bad idea) I think you could create a skyline green.

# 6 and # 14 were probably skyline greens before the trees in the distance matured.

[Mark Saltzman]

The Prairie Club (Dunes) - Hole 13

[Pete Balzer]

Black Mesa 17th

[Tim Martin]

Probably the best I've seen in #3 at Fishers Island


From further back


Diamante

Another shot of 3 at Fishers

[George_Bahto]

Sleepy's 5th green taken during this years Met Open - wanted to remove that rise in the left rear corner but we had spent too much on stone and ledge removal already - and lots more to go at the time

[Jay Flemma]

I played Sleepy Hollow last week and the 4th does indeed have a skyline green. No photos, but I don't remember all the trees that are visible in Ran's report. Great hole... and, great course.

Yes, It's the fifth.  Ran has a great pic in his review as well.

Mike, you were back in town and didn't call me! 

[Brian Chapin]

Is the 4th at Arcola one of the original greens?

If so, does anyone know what number it was in the original routing and did the following hole play down the other side of that ridge?

If I remember correctly that housing development down below was at one time part of the golf course.  I'd love to see an old routing if anyone has it...


 

[Steve Lang]

  How far back is depth perception needed fora skyline green to be "qualified"

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