Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!

[Cliff Hamm]

I must be mistaken, but I thought that Mickleson liked the course but thought the greens were a bit over the top and should be stimped at around 10-11.  Am I hallucinating or did anyone else read this in the last week?  If so why the difference of opinion?

You're not mistaken.  It was in the Sunday NY Times Sports section.  Going to be interesting...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/sports/golf/for-pga-revamped-course-presents-new-challenges.html

So my sanity remains intact.

But who is correct Brad Klein:  

Interest of greens and surrounds: 6

Loads of carefully sculpted hole locations on surfaces averaging 5,711 square feet. Elevated green surfaces are framed by newly deepened bunkers and don’t take well to runups. The very modest internal contouring requires high Stimpmeter speeds to be compelling. These Champion Bermudagrass surfaces can deliver them in summertime without compromising turfgrass quality

Or Phil Mickleson???

“The greens are a bit overdone,” he said. “When I played they were way too undulating for the speed they were at. So, I guess they’re probably going to have to slow them down. When the greens were redone, they were extremely over-contoured.”

He said the green speed when he played Monday was about a 13 on the Stimpmeter, which, when combined with severe slopes, can make the surfaces almost unplayable.

“The balls wouldn’t stop on the green,” Mickelson said.

Jones responded that the green contours are the same as they were in 2001.

“The grass has been changed to an ultradwarf Bermuda rather than bentgrass, which makes them firmer and faster,” Jones added. “To some degree, Phil is right, though. The greens were very fast when he played the other day — probably 14 on the Stimpmeter — and they’re going to slow them down.”

How much they are slowed will be determined. Jones’s guess was to 12 or 13; Mickelson’s wish was 10.

[BCrosby]

Ultradwarf is amazing stuff in the dog days of summer in Atlanta. You almost have to ignore it to get speeds slower than 12. It will be child's play to get speeds at AAC over 13. I'd bet they will be at 13.5+, whatever they announce officially. We found at the state am that on some mornings the speeds got to 14 inadvertently. We were shooting for 13.

Amazing turf. The hotter it gets the faster and firmer you can get it.

Bob 

[Lester George]

Sounds to me like the usual "pre-tournament" Mickleson justification of why he won't play well.  He did the very same thing at Charlotte last year(?) and the same thing many times before.  He is basically trying to convince the listener that if he doesn't play well it has more to do with course design/conditions than any shortcomings he may have.

Lester

[Dan_Callahan]

I do live down here along with 6 million other acclimated people in my market to properly support a major championship.  I wouldn't want to play in the Open on one of your Irish-style cold, wet, windy days - but they've been doing it for years.  It's all a matter of perspective.

I am of Irish descent, but I don't live in Ireland ... I live in New England. But the Irish play in wet windy conditions because they don't have a choice. That's the climate of the country. In America, we have lots of choice. Just because 6 million people are idiotic enough to live in a place that regularly exceeds 100 degrees doesn't mean it's a good place to play golf in summer.

[David Kelly]

Sounds to me like the usual "pre-tournament" Mickleson justification of why he won't play well.  He did the very same thing at Charlotte last year(?) and the same thing many times before.  He is basically trying to convince the listener that if he doesn't play well it has more to do with course design/conditions than any shortcomings he may have.

I doubt it.

[David Kelly]

Just because 6 million people are idiotic enough to live in a place that regularly exceeds 100 degrees doesn't mean it's a good place to play golf in summer.

But living in an area where you freeze your d___ off in the winter is the smart choice?

[Dan_Callahan]

But living in an area where you freeze your d___ off in the winter is the smart choice?

If you ski, of course it is.

[Mike Erdmann]

Was that Scott Erdmann and his caddie Mike Mckennon? Scott is the asst pro at Oswego lake cc and mike is the owner of mckennon golf bags (like Mackenzie walker bags)

Mark,
It was Scott and Mike.  Scott was on Golf channel lasy night also if you are interested.  When Mike said they were coming this way we arranged for them to stay with a friend that lives across from the front gate at the AAC so they are having a big time.

Is Scott Mike Erdmann's brother?   Mike is a GCA'er from Salem, Oregon.  

Indeed, that's my younger brother playing in the tournament.  Very exciting week!  If anyone else is at the tournament and wants to get together for a beverage, send me an IM.

[JC Jones]

Any GCA get together planned for the PGA Championship?  Just thought I would check.  I'll be there with my senior designer Glenn Muckley to attend several meetings.  Drinks?

Lester

I'm ready to make the drive from Charlotte just to see Glenn's glorious mane.

[Mike_Young]

FYI, I live 10 minutes for AAC.  If you are in town, pop me an IM. 

You and Lester give me a location...Rymer is around in the evenings except for Wednesday.

[Kenny Baer]

"Atlanta Athletic Club is great"  I am not a fan, it is in great shape though. The fairways are way to narrow for my taste and the arch is hard for the sake of hard. My fav hole is 11, the 2nd shot is pretty cool. FYI it never gets in triple digits in Atlanta, it is certainly hot as hell but compared to places like Houston, New Orleans, Ok City it is nothing.

[Chris Cupit]

Historic average temps are this:
July is on average the hottest month of the year for Atlanta (which sits about 1,000 feet above sea level).
Average high is 88 and average low is 68.

Johns Creek, northeast of Atlanta by 20-25 miles, is slightly cooler than the city of Atlanta by a degree or two as well.

August is statistically a little cooler by a degree or two.

The last few years have been unusually hot and certainly not typical.  2010 and 2011 have been exceptionally hot with record highs in 2010 and some places in 2011 setting records for the number of consecutive days over 90 with June being more than 6 degrees above average.  The last two years have seen late May and June temps in the 90's which is unusual and a ridiculous way to start the summer.


By August with a early summer like the last two years, it is a miserable time for greens that are not bermuda.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I live in New England. But the Irish play in wet windy conditions because they don't have a choice. That's the climate of the country. In America, we have lots of choice. Just because 6 million people are idiotic enough to live in a place that regularly exceeds 100 degrees doesn't mean it's a good place to play golf in summer.

I'm one of the "idiots" in the south. Where the PGA will be this year, next year in SC, and 2017 in Charlotte. Y'all come back now.
And by the way, y'all have ice. There's something called powder out west.

[Dan_Callahan]

I'm one of the "idiots" in the south. Where the PGA will be this year, next year in SC, and 2017 in Charlotte. Y'all come back now.
And by the way, y'all have ice. There's something called powder out west.

Anyone who was in New England last year (or at Jay Peak any year) knows that we get plenty of powder.

We save the ice for skating. It's a fun sport called hockey. You can play it outdoors if you live in a place that actually has discernible seasons.

[Link Walsh]

We save the ice for skating. It's a fun sport called hockey. You can play it outdoors if you live in a place that actually has discernible seasons.
[/quote]


Yes, but for us, golf is a year round sport.  

And we did have "Snowmagedon 2011" last year in February.  I literally couldn't get out of my driveway for seven days. 

[A.G._Crockett]

Ultradwarf is amazing stuff in the dog days of summer in Atlanta. You almost have to ignore it to get speeds slower than 12. It will be child's play to get speeds at AAC over 13. I'd bet they will be at 13.5+, whatever they announce officially. We found at the state am that on some mornings the speeds got to 14 inadvertently. We were shooting for 13.

Amazing turf. The hotter it gets the faster and firmer you can get it.

Bob 

Bob,
I think it is safe to say that some of the players in the State Am, very GOOD players, had never seen those green speeds before.

[A.G._Crockett]

I do live down here along with 6 million other acclimated people in my market to properly support a major championship.  I wouldn't want to play in the Open on one of your Irish-style cold, wet, windy days - but they've been doing it for years.  It's all a matter of perspective.

I am of Irish descent, but I don't live in Ireland ... I live in New England. But the Irish play in wet windy conditions because they don't have a choice. That's the climate of the country. In America, we have lots of choice. Just because 6 million people are idiotic enough to live in a place that regularly exceeds 100 degrees doesn't mean it's a good place to play golf in summer.

Dan,
I've lived my whole life in the South, the last 30 of them about 20 minutes from Atlanta Athletic Club.  It DOES get hot here, though we have relatively few days that exceed 100.  Just a boatload of days that exceed 90 with high humidity for 3-4 months.

Next winter, when we deal with the occasional frost delay on a Saturday morning in our 12 month golf season, come on down.  You can play at my club as my guest.  Great guys, great golf, great weather.  What's so idiotic about that?

Or, I'll come up and we can ski on your course! 

[Dan_Callahan]

Dan,
I've lived my whole life in the South, the last 30 of them about 20 minutes from Atlanta Athletic Club.  It DOES get hot here, though we have relatively few days that exceed 100.  Just a boatload of days that exceed 90 with high humidity for 3-4 months.

Next winter, when we deal with the occasional frost delay on a Saturday morning in our 12 month golf season, come on down.  You can play at my club as my guest.  Great guys, great golf, great weather.  What's so idiotic about that?

Or, I'll come up and we can ski on your course! 

I'm not saying New England has the greatest weather on Earth. As such, I wouldn't advocate The Country Club hosting the US Open in December. In the same way, the Southeast hosting a major in August is very unappealing and unnecessary. There are other places in the country that are spectacular this time of year.

As for golfing year round, you can't have light without darkness. You can't have love without hate. You can't fully appreciate the glory of golf in the summer without experiencing the layoff caused by snow-encrusted fairways in the winter.

[Mac Plumart]

I just got back from a quick evening tour of the practice round.  The course looks amazing...they've really got it in great shape.  Judging by their approach shots and putts, the greens are BRICK hard and fast as lightening.  The rough didn't look too crazy, but we will see how it plays during the tournament.  This should be good.  Pin placement on 18 will be interesting.

[Mike Hamilton]

Dan,
I've lived my whole life in the South, the last 30 of them about 20 minutes from Atlanta Athletic Club.  It DOES get hot here, though we have relatively few days that exceed 100.  Just a boatload of days that exceed 90 with high humidity for 3-4 months.

Next winter, when we deal with the occasional frost delay on a Saturday morning in our 12 month golf season, come on down.  You can play at my club as my guest.  Great guys, great golf, great weather.  What's so idiotic about that?

Or, I'll come up and we can ski on your course! 

I'm not saying New England has the greatest weather on Earth. As such, I wouldn't advocate The Country Club hosting the US Open in December. In the same way, the Southeast hosting a major in August is very unappealing and unnecessary. There are other places in the country that are spectacular this time of year.

As for golfing year round, you can't have light without darkness. You can't have love without hate. You can't fully appreciate the glory of golf in the summer without experiencing the layoff caused by snow-encrusted fairways in the winter.

I've lived my whole life in the South as well, grew up in Charlotte in a home without A/C and live in Richmond now... but would rather play in windy wet 40 degree sleeting March KP weather than the swelterning sauna we've been living though the last month.

That being said, I don't think the issue is the players.  They are pro athletes and get paid big bucks to PLAY GOLF and can deal with some discomfort if they have to.  But from a spectator standpoint, I wouldn't be too enthiastic about spending the day out there in that heat.  I think I'll watch from my living room.

But given the choice, I'll stay in the South and wait till fall to play golf.

[Howard Riefs]

Reading this thread I'm having vivid flashbacks of the first major I attended: the 1987 PGA Championship at PGA National. Jaime Diaz descibed it best in SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1066310/index.htm):

After three days of rain early in the week, PGA National was a sweatbox for the tournament. The 97° high (and 84% humidity) made Sunday the hottest Aug. 9 in Palm Beach history. With few trees to provide shade, players took to wearing a variety of wide-brimmed hats and wet towels for relief. Arnold Palmer wore sweatbands around his wrists for the first time in his career and declared, "I've never been so hot in 57 years." The usually intrepid 300-pound caddie Herman Mitchell had to quit on pro Mark Hayes after nine holes Thursday. Gary Hallberg said the heat made him "delirious."

Hence, the reason the US Open and PGA aren't meant to be played in the south.

[Tim Martin]

Dan,
I've lived my whole life in the South, the last 30 of them about 20 minutes from Atlanta Athletic Club.  It DOES get hot here, though we have relatively few days that exceed 100.  Just a boatload of days that exceed 90 with high humidity for 3-4 months.

Next winter, when we deal with the occasional frost delay on a Saturday morning in our 12 month golf season, come on down.  You can play at my club as my guest.  Great guys, great golf, great weather.  What's so idiotic about that?

Or, I'll come up and we can ski on your course!  

I'm not saying New England has the greatest weather on Earth. As such, I wouldn't advocate The Country Club hosting the US Open in December. In the same way, the Southeast hosting a major in August is very unappealing and unnecessary. There are other places in the country that are spectacular this time of year.

As for golfing year round, you can't have light without darkness. You can't have love without hate. You can't fully appreciate the glory of golf in the summer without experiencing the layoff caused by snow-encrusted fairways in the winter.

I've lived my whole life in the South as well, grew up in Charlotte in a home without A/C and live in Richmond now... but would rather play in windy wet 40 degree sleeting March KP weather than the swelterning sauna we've been living though the last month.

That being said, I don't think the issue is the players.  They are pro athletes and get paid big bucks to PLAY GOLF and can deal with some discomfort if they have to.  But from a spectator standpoint, I wouldn't be too enthiastic about spending the day out there in that heat.  I think I'll watch from my living room.

But given the choice, I'll stay in the South and wait till fall to play golf.

Mike- I live in the Northeast and I too would rather play in 40 degree temps than 90 plus with high humidity. The older I get playing and spectating in extreme heat appeals less and less. I have passed on a couple of pretty good venues this year that I wouldn`t have thought twice about ten years ago and my pals were amazed. When I see places like Pinehurst, Dormie and Tobacco Road giving you rock bottom prices in August it ain`t because they are just feeling generous. Unless I can be in an air conditioned tent I`ll view this years PGA from my living room with the AC blasting.

[Mac Plumart]

Diamond zyosia is the grass in the fairways.  Do you need more specific information?