US AM Qualifying at Llanerch and Rolling Green

[Tom ORourke]

A friend of mine was attempting to qualify for the US AM at the two courses in the Philadelphia area. Two things about the results that caught my eye. Llanerch scores were higher by a few strokes. That might be a surprise to some. The major eye opener to me is that the 18th at RG, a 482 yard par 4, downhill off the tee, dogleg right to an uphill green, played at about 4.7. Not a shocker as it is a par 5 for the members. The 18th at Llanerch is 297 yards, and from an elevated tee. That hole played to 4.8. Who would have predicted that? Almost 200 yards shorter and playing harder? There were many more DBs and Others on the shorter hole. Can we have input from anyone who played? I like the 18th at Llanerch and have made 3s, 4s, and 5s in my visits there. I think the course is underrated. How many good courses have a good, drivable par 4 as the 18th?

[Chris Roselle]

Tom, the hole location of 18 was in its' usually back leftish location which is extremelly difficult but very fair.  The 18th hole at Rolling Green was also actually closer to 450 yards as opposed to 480.  And the thing you have to remember is Rolling Green played to a par of 70 and Llanerch played to a 71.  Both courses played fantastic and both Superintendents gave us the perfect test of golf we were looking for.

[Joe Bausch]

Here is probably how Llanerch's 18th looked at the US AM qualifier recently (this pic from June of 2008):



Here are a sequence of photos from Thanksgiving Day, 2010:

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I have not played Llanerch before (Chris, we need a Member Play Day!)

My question is, is it a wise play to attempt to drive the 18th green?  It appears to be a relatively small target, well bunkered, and the green appears to have some pitch. 

In short, is the risk worth the reward?  Or, is it more worthwhile to play down to wedge distance and play for birdie, and at the most, par? 

[Chris Roselle]

I have not played Llanerch before (Chris, we need a Member Play Day!)

My question is, is it a wise play to attempt to drive the 18th green?  It appears to be a relatively small target, well bunkered, and the green appears to have some pitch. 

In short, is the risk worth the reward?  Or, is it more worthwhile to play down to wedge distance and play for birdie, and at the most, par? 

Doug, I'm not long enough to reach the green from the tee but when the hole location is back, like it was for the US AM, I generally try and hit it as close as I possibly can so that my pitch shot will come in alittle lower.  Anything that hits that green with too much spin is gonna come right off the front of the green.  And if you hit it anwhere past (over the green most likely) the hole you will struggle to make par/bogey.  IMO, risk reqrd no matter how you play it...

[mike_malone]

 I spoke with one of our young guys who played (he's a member of RG). He said the greens were firmer at Llanerch. I know ours were soft.

[mike_malone]

 I have played Llanerch many times but never observed what one of the qualifiers told me about RG vs. LCC. He said the slopes off of the bunkers are more severe at LCC than RG. With smaller greens this would certainly make scoring more difficult.

[Tom ORourke]

I played a US AM qualifier at the two courses back in the 70s. I made a 3 on the 18th, and my playing patrners made 4 and 2. The 2  was a hole out from about 60 yards and the 4 was a missed 3 footer. I have hit driver there but also 4 iron / gap wedge. I have had Michael McDermott playing behind me in a GAP match and saw his tee ball go into the front bunker. That is probably a good play for him (he is long) to go for an up and down for birdie, or settle for a par. The tree on the right is in play for a push and there is a stream that runs along the left side. I like the options, and how you play it depends on how you feel, where you stand in a match, or you might just pick a play and stay with it. Interesting finishing hole.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Tom,
 
  Having not been there, I did not know there was a stream up the left side.

We often discuss older courses/holes made obsolete, or ruined by technology; I wonder if technological improvements almost make the hole better, make it more tempting for players, to see the "290" on the card and decide to take on the risky play of trying to drive the green.

Especially because it seems right in that area where ego can come into play, fatigue at the end of a round, and corrupt rational thought. 

Whereas, maybe if the green was just out of reach, say, around 375 yards, it may seem too far to try to drive the green, and less tempting to try. 

Kay has a hole at Blue Heron that plays about 290, the 7th hole.  This hole has woods left, and a public road, Tilton Rd.,  right (if you really miss it).  Personally, I lay up, because I know my tendencies, and I like my chances with a 4 iron and a sand wedge a lot better--there are better places on the course to go for it.  This is a good golf hole as well. 

[mike_malone]

 I think RG should play #18 all the way as a 500+ yard par four. I play with 6 to 8 handicappers who drive the ball to about 200 from the green from the blue tees.

   In better economic times I heard talk at LCC that the clubhouse would be moved and #18 lengthened.

[Tim Gavrich]

If a sub-300 yard hole averaged nearly a shot over par in a US Am qualifier, I'm guessing the pin position was at least fairly on-the-edge.

[Kevin Pallier]

How many good courses have a good, drivable par 4 as the 18th?

TOC and North Berwick spring to mind.

Mayday

What were the high and low scores at RG ?

[Chris Roselle]

TOC and North Berwick spring to mind.

Mayday

What were the high and low scores at RG ?
[/quote]

The low round at Rolling Green was shot by the medalist, Jeff Osberg, with a 67 in the morning round.  The highest round of the day at RG was 91.  This qualifier was also played over two days because of severe weather that rolled in around 4:30pm Monday afternoon.  Twenty players at each course had to come back first thing Tuesday morning to finish their second rounds.  Both courses were alittle softer on Tuesday but tough to tell if that had anything to do with the scoring.

[Kevin Pallier]

Thanks Chris - 3 under at RG - obviously played pretty tough to Par.

The weather was surely no more "severe" than this ? 

[Chris Roselle]

By severe I mean, hundreds of lightening strikes within a ten mile radious over an extended period of time.  We actually didn't get a tremendous amount of rain...We had players off the course probably 30-45 minutes before the rain came...

[mike_malone]

 Kevin,
 
   That's how it looks at this very moment.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Kevin,
 
   That's how it looks at this very moment.

Mike, what are you doing at the golf course?  Who could be calling your book right now? 

[Kevin Pallier]

Mayday

I trust your judgement - you after all slogged it around in the pouring rain for a few "enjoyable" and very enlightening hours

Cheers mate