Shooting Star - Jackson Hole, WY - Favorite pics

[Bill Satterfield]

I recently played the newly opened Tom Fazio designed Shooting Star course in Jackson, WY.  Shooting Star may be one of the few newly opened private clubs that seems to be doing well from a membership standpoint (173 member in about a year's time).  The membership boom can be attributed to Shooting Star's excellent location on the north side of Jackson Hole which puts it convenient to many amenities, including the ski hill.  The course was built on a former cattle ranch and features natural streams of water running through the course that were rerouted to Fazio's liking to fit the design.

Like most Fazio courses, there is a driveable par four and a 500 yard par four.  The bunkering is attractive, the holes are solid, and no expense was sparred.  Below are some of my favorite pics from the day:

Shooting Star 2nd:



Shooting Star 3rd back:



Shooting Star 4th:



Shooting Star 5th:



Shooting Star 9th:



Shooting Star 10th back:



Shooting Star 15th:



Shooting Star 18th:



Shooting Star 18th clubhouse:

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:

Looks like you had a good day to be there.

Did you like the course?  Love it?  You really didn't say.

[Rob Rigg]

Interesting - from the photos - looks very similar to Huntsman Springs.

Did you pref one over the other?

[Bill Satterfield]

Tom  - I liked it quite a bit.  I still think Snake River Sporting Club is the best course in the Jackson Hole area but I would put Shooting Star in 2nd place.  Of course, with Snake River being closed for the 2nd straight year Shooting Star may take the #1 spot by default.  The property that the course was put on isn't spectacular (quite flat) but Fazio made it look and play pretty darn good.  The greens are as firm as anything I've played this year and there is ample opportunity to play the ground game.  The infinity edge green on #5 as it plays back into the mountain is pretty cool, the cape 15th hole is a solid risk/reward opportunity, the 7th hole is fun but doesn't separate itself from other dirveable par 4s I've played, and I think Fazio did a good job in how he incorporated the water into the course with options of trying the forced carry or utilizing the ground to work the ball through an alternate route.  In the end, Shooting Star has some well conceived holes that could really benefit from some elevation changes in the terrain.

By the way, I got back to Ballyneal this year after playing it right after it opened.  I feel that the course is playing MUCH better now than it did 5 years ago and I was able to better appreciate it this time around.  I've played a lot more courses since my initial visit to Ballyneal and studied architecture more as well which also lent me to appreciating Ballyneal much more this time around.  It really is a great track.  The closest course you've designed to where I live is Rock Creek Cattle Co.  It was a lot of fun to play your style of architecture in a mountain setting!

Rob - If I were picking a course that I would like to join I would take Shooting Star over Huntsman Springs.  Although Huntsman Springs touts wide fairways, there are so many bunkers in play that the lines you are able to take off the tee box are much more limiting then you would think they'd be.  For example, on the long par four 7th hole I took a 5 wood off the tee in order to avoid hitting it too long into the bunker deep on the right side.  I hit a draw right down the center line of the wide fairway that I thought would be perfect!  I was a bit disgusted to see that anything on the right 2/3 of the fairway would be kicked down to the massive bunker complex on the right side of the hole.  That fairway is effectively 15-20 yards wide when the conditions are firm and fast.  Otherwise I guess you could take a 5 iron off the tee and leave yourself 240+ yards into the green.

On the par three 5th hole you have to hit a PERFECT shot to get anywhere near most of the hole locations.  As you know, the green sits at a 45 degree angle and there is bunkering up the entire inside portion of the hole.  Short and left is another bunker and if you hit it straight at the green it will likely kick you forward into the junk since the angle is shallow.  For a 200 yard par three I'd like a little more foregivess than having to hit a perfect, high fade to a firm green with little room for error or recovery.

Another example is the 14th green.  The bank on the left side should be a bail out area in order to avoid the water to the right of the green.  However, we attempted several approach shots towards the bank from various lengths and found that balls would be kicked all the way over and across the green and stop in the rough found between the green and the water.

In the end, there are a lot of things I really like about Huntsman Springs.  My biggest problem with the course is the same problem I feel Tetherow has; it doesn't reward 'good' shots well enough, it demands too many 'perfect' shots, and the abundance of bunkering on firm fairways overly limits the corridors you can play before being penalized.








 

[Jim Franklin]

I like the shot of the 5th green with the mountain in the background. I may have to visit my sister again soon.

[Sean Leary]

even Fabio is making pretty frilly bunkers...

I saw a little of this course as it was being built. It was a VERY flat site, but a good location as it literally is right next to the ski area, as Bill said.

Before the recent rash of privates, there wasn't anything private there so its relative membership success is not overly surprising..

[MikeJones]

I was fortunate to be able to work on the pre-visualization renderings for Shooting Star back in 2005 before construction started.

It was one of my first major projects and it very interesting being in the middle of the design process, as the plans were constantly changing and although the routing was pretty much in place, the hole features and bunker placements etc were still evolving. This process continued into the construction where I can see where the holes differ from the plans I had as the guys on the ground did their thing.

If you want to take a look at some of the preview pics I did for them they're on my gallery page http://www.3dgolfdesign.com/gallery.html

Personally I love the way the finished course turned out from the pics I have seen but it's an awful long way to Jackson hole from Valencia so I might have to wait a while before I get a chance to play it!

[Andy Troeger]

I had a chance to play Shooting Star yesterday. Having seen photos on this thread and on their website, I expected it to look good, but it plays even better. I think it holds up pretty well to its #24 modern ranking in GolfWeek and is certainly in the top 20-25% of Fazio's work.

The course was obviously going to look pretty being located right next to the Teton Mountains, but perhaps the most amazing thing about the course was the amount of dirt that was moved...and the way it looks like it could have always been that way. The drop on the approach at the 11th and the return up the 12th is particularly dramatic. The 11th was probably my favorite hole as a risk/reward par five with a centerline bunker and a creek up the right side. The right side of the fairway is the riskier but more direct route to get home in two.

The greens were very good with interesting movement. Surprisingly, there really was not a pronounced mountain effect as at most courses near mountains. Perhaps that was because of the created landscape. Its well worth playing if given the opportunity and is quite far ahead of 3 Creek Ranch of the two I've seen in the Jackson area.

The course is also very walkable and has a core routing with housing only on the northern perimeter.

[Tom_Doak]

I think it holds up pretty well to its #24 modern ranking in GolfWeek and is certainly in the top 20-25% of Fazio's work.
 

That is really funny.  By those data points, we can infer that all of the top 100 would be Fazio's.

[Andy Troeger]

Hmm...I should have thought through those numbers a little better! On first impression I have it 4th of the 21 Fazio's I've played, so the 20-25% number was intended to be conservative given the sample size, and I didn't mean #24 to be an exact figure either. Its certainly belonging in the top 50 modern and I'd be willing to say top 100 overall for the US, so hopefully the context is a little better than my first attempt!

[Michael George]

Bill:

Thanks for the pictures and your insights.

It sure looks incredibly flat for a "mountain" course.  Even looks like most lies are flat.  Do you have many uneven lies?  Any elevated tee shots?

How would you compare it against Gozzer Ranch and Black Rock in your home state?  

[Andy Troeger]

Michael,
Hopefully Bill sees this as well but I'll take a stab as well. I wouldn't call Shooting Star a mountain course--its a valley course near a mountain. The original property was evidently pancake flat and all of the features had to be shaped. The fairways are not especially severe, but they are also not flat. I would tend to say that I had very few totally flat lies, but nothing especially extreme either. A few of the fairways are above or below the level of the tee, but its probably not by more than 10-15 feet maximum save perhaps the 12th and 13th holes which climb fairly significantly, and the approach the the 11th drops quite a bit. The photos do flatten the course more than the in-person experience would show.

I've played the other two courses you mentioned once each. I think Gozzer Ranch is the best of that bunch, but I also think its the best Fazio I've seen. Black Rock is one I enjoyed significantly as well--its very different in style from Shooting Star. If I had to join one or the other (which is generally irrelevant as I couldn't afford either!) I might pick Shooting Star because its more playable and walkable, but if I had one more round and had to choose I'd probably take Black Rock because its that much fun to play and the risk/reward opportunities are very prevalent.

[Brad Isaacs]

Having seen part of it during construction,and having seen the land first time in the 1960's, it is quite amazing they have a golf course there. It looks like they moved less dirt than they did.

[Bill Satterfield]

Bill:

Thanks for the pictures and your insights.

It sure looks incredibly flat for a "mountain" course.  Even looks like most lies are flat.  Do you have many uneven lies?  Any elevated tee shots?

How would you compare it against Gozzer Ranch and Black Rock in your home state?  

I agree with Andy, there is very little elevation changes and I don't recall being faced with many uneven lies.  In comparison to Gozzer Ranch and Black Rock, I would take both of them over Shooting Star rather comfortably.  I love the variety that elevation changes bring to a course as it feels more like an adventure throughout the routing.  Gozzer's property is stunning with the natural basalt rock, trees, views of Lake Coeur d'Alene, and overall isolation.  As I've said before, playing Black Rock is like taking your golf ball on a trip to the amusement park.  The green sites offer a ton of creativity to get the ball close, fairways feature a variety of shapes, sizes and slopes, and the elevated terrain over the lake is awesome.  Engh's bunkers are much more penil than Fazio's and has a look that is very "Engh."  There seems to be more designers favoring the rugged look on bunkers (Fazio, Nicklaus, Weiskopf) while Engh's are very much his own brand.  Shooting Star, like most Fazio courses, is quite good.  But for me, Gozzer and Black Rock are spectacular.

[Mark Saltzman]

Having played both GR and SS in the last month, I am comfortable saying I much preferred SS.  SS is one of those courses that I really enjoyed both times I played it, and it gets better as I continue to think about it.  Perhaps only 2 dull holes on the golf course, and it is unfortunate that they are consecutive (6-7).  But, I think the three long par 4s on the golf course (5, 13? and 18) are exceptionally well done.  In particular, the green and surrounds on the 5th are bold and unique and perhaps some may not find it interesting, but I loved it.  

Sometimes I know a course is great and if others say they don't see it (as is the case with Wine Valley), I know they are wrong.  Similarly, there are times when I don't see a course as being great but all others do, and in that case I think I must be wrong (as is the case with Gozzer).  

EDIT:

As an FYI, my list of Fazios is as follows:

Red Sky - Fazio
Gozzer Ranch
Alderra
Glenwild
Grayhawk - Raptor
Pelican Hill (North)
Shooting Star
Trump National
Black Diamond (Quarry) (West)
World Woods - Pine Barrens
World Woods - Rolling Oaks
Emerald Dunes
Mirasol - Sunrise
PGA GC - Ryder
PGA GC - Wanamaker
PGA National - Haig
PGA National - Squire
Disney - Osprey Ridge
Lake Nona
Legacy at Alaqua Lakes
White Columns
Victoria National
Mountaintop
Fallen Oak
Primm Valley - Desert
Shadow Creek
Pinehurst No. 4
Pinehurst No. 8
Barefoot - Fazio
Kiawah Island - Osprey Point
TPC Myrtle Beach
Barton Creek - Fazio Canyons
Barton Creek - Fazio Foothills
The National

And a rough top 10 would be:
1) Victoria National
2) Shooting Star
3) The National GC of Canada
4) Shadow Creek
5) Gozzer Ranch
6) Mountaintop
7) Glenwild
Black Diamond
9) Aldarra
10) World Woods (Pine Barrens)

[Jim Franklin]

Mark -

At least you got the #1 Fazio correct in my book at least.

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark -

At least you got the #1 Fazio correct in my book at least.

Jim,

I take it that you don't agree with much else from my list then?

[Bill Satterfield]

For whatever reason, I LOVE lists, so I appreciate you sharing that Mark.  I will go ahead and throw out my Top 10 favorite Fazio courses:

1.  Gozzer Ranch
2.  Shadow Creek
3.  Hudson National
4.  MC at Aldarra
5.  Eagle Point
6.  Forest Creek (North)
7.  Estancia Club
8.  Pronghorn
9.  Pinehurst #4
10.  Glenwild

The last time I played Glenwild was in 2006 (aced #11) and I've played a lot of places since then.  I'd like to get back there this fall and play it again with additional perspective.  I know that Matt Ward views it as one of his most underappreciated courses.   

[Mark Saltzman]

For whatever reason, I LOVE lists, so I appreciate you sharing that Mark.  I will go ahead and throw out my Top 10 favorite Fazio courses:

1.  Gozzer Ranch
2.  Shadow Creek
3.  Hudson National
4.  MC at Aldarra
5.  Eagle Point
6.  Forest Creek (North)
7.  Estancia Club
8.  Pronghorn
9.  Pinehurst #4
10.  Glenwild

The last time I played Glenwild was in 2006 (aced #11) and I've played a lot of places since then.  I'd like to get back there this fall and play it again with additional perspective.  I know that Matt Ward views it as one of his most underappreciated courses.  

Bill,

I'm a lists guy as well.  Interesting that SS does not even make your top 10.  As a point of reference, are there any others in my top 10 that you played but don't have on your top 10?

And Glenwild is quite good and quite underappreciated (perhaps their choice as they seem to enjoy being 'under the radar').  A really solid set of par 3s there, with 17 being a standout.  After finishing my round I really wanted another crack at it.  The same could certainly not be said of all golf courses I play.

[Mac Plumart]

What the heck, here are 10 of my favorite Fazio's.  FYI, I've only played 12 total Tom Fazio's.

Sea Island--Seaside--redo of a Colt/Alison
Shadow Creek
Sage Valley
The Farm--underappreciated golf course IMO
Pinehurst #4--played it when the course was baked out and it was AWESOME...fast and firm!!
Black Diamond Quarry--quarry holes are a must see.
Pinehurst #8
W.W. Pine Barrens
St. Ives
Osprey Point

[Jim Franklin]

Mark -

I loved Gozzer and Shadow Creek. Both in my Fazio top 10.

1. Victoria National
2. The Alotian
3. Gozzer Ranch
4. Wade Hampton
5. Shadow Creek
6. Karsten Creek
7. Estancia
8. The Quarry
9. Flint Hills
10. Galloway National

[Jim Franklin]

For whatever reason, I LOVE lists, so I appreciate you sharing that Mark.  I will go ahead and throw out my Top 10 favorite Fazio courses:

1.  Gozzer Ranch
2.  Shadow Creek
3.  Hudson National
4.  MC at Aldarra
5.  Eagle Point
6.  Forest Creek (North)
7.  Estancia Club
8.  Pronghorn
9.  Pinehurst #4
10.  Glenwild

The last time I played Glenwild was in 2006 (aced #11) and I've played a lot of places since then.  I'd like to get back there this fall and play it again with additional perspective.  I know that Matt Ward views it as one of his most underappreciated courses.   

Bill -

You liked Eagle Point that much? I enjoyed the course as well, but not near my top 5 Fazios. I agree Hudson and Aldarra are better.

[Andy Troeger]

Here's my top ten...
1. Gozzer Ranch
2. Victoria National
3. Alotian Club
4. Shooing Star
5. Dallas National
6. Karsten Creek
7. World Woods Pine Barrens
8. Estancia Club
9. Aldarra
10. Glenwild

Haven't played Shadow Creek, Wade Hampton, or Mountaintop.