Rees Jones - What do you like about his work?

[Dan Herrmann]

I know that Rees' work gets a lot of negative attention here (and I'm certainly part of it).  But there must be something that keeps him in business - he has many courses designed, and people in general (not here) seem to like his designs.

That said, what do you like about Rees' designs?

[Carl Nichols]

Dan,
I can't point to anything in particular, but I can say that the Rees course I have played are generally better than, and have many less head-scratching moments than, the courses of many other less-successful architects. Perhaps that's as much a function of the sites and budgets, but on the courses I've played, I haven't seen much that would be considered poorly done.

[Mike Sweeney]

I think the question with Rees Jones is not "what do you like", as all of his courses that I have played have been very likeable. The question in my mind is why is there not more greatness on some of his better sites.

It is a similar question for RTJ. I played Middle Bay CC on Long Island this past week, with a famous GCAer and Rees critic. The property is dead flat on the water on the South Shore of Long Island. We were not expecting much, but it was better than expected with a shared Doak 5.5 rating by the both of us. Yet, there really are not too many RTJ courses that are "plane worthy" in my mind.

Should Rees gotten a little more out of Montauk Downs course? Yes I would say so, but I still really like it.

I have always had a fondness for Atlantic, and it has gotten better and better. Having read the book on the making of Atlantic and biked around the property for years, it is clear that the property does not compare to its more famous neighbors.

Did I think Nantucket was a little overly bunkered and shaped in spots? Yes, especially after playing Sankaty in the morning.

Where he has gotten grief on here mainly is his renovation work. Personally I am a fan of Bethpage Black and only miss the old Black as it was easier to access. Could it have been more historic? I would guess so, but as the old course never has a US Open, how would that work?

His other work at traditional courses is where he gets the most grief, and clearly he would be way down my list if I was restoring a historic course.

It should be noted that considering the size of his portfolio, there have been very few that have not been financially viable.

[Bill_McBride]

Not sure if I've ever played a Rees course except for Burnt Pine in Sandestin, Florida.  This look was typical of the bunkering:





The 18th at Bethpage Black has always turned me off:



I would like to play Old Kinderhook up in Valdosta, Georgia, heard nothing but good stuff about it.

[Jud_T]

Check out the NY Times article today about his work at Atlanta Athletic Club.  Don't have the link as it's for subscribers only...Seems to be some controversy over the severity of his greens at higher stimps for the PGA...

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Not much, I tend to see most of Rees's work is lost opportunities. The newer the course the more I feel that is a fair comment. MPCC Dunes redo was good work. I have mixed feelings about how the Raynor was dealt with. However his routing changes and tree work seem to be for the best.

[Tim_Weiman]

Bill,

I don't want to hijack this thread, but that first picture of Burnt Pine is bad beyond belief. If there are any Rees fans here, I'd love to hear a defense of that work.

Tommy N was right with his comments about "Rees pieces".

[Kyle Harris]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but that first picture of Burnt Pinr is bad beyond belief. If this is any Rees fan here, I'd love to hear a defense of that work.

For starters, one doesn't play golf from an aircraft.

[Mark Saltzman]

I recently played one of his new courses, Victory Rqnch in Park City, UT. They are private but accepting outside play and in my mind could (and should) be a top 100 you can play golf course. It is not the type of course that will necessarily appeal to this crowd but it is a really good, really fun cartball golf course with tremendous vistas and elevation changes. I will get some pictures up at some point.

[Mike Nuzzo]

For starters, one doesn't play golf from an aircraft.

Have you met Ben?
that hole looks like hell
See my new thread...

[Ronald Montesano]

Mike,
I don't think that Rees did Montauk...that is his father's work.

I've played Grand Niagara in Ontario, Arcadian Shores in Myrtle Beach (which he doesn't list on his site), Lake of Isles North in Connecticut, Golden Horseshoe Green in Virginia and will play Currituck in North Carolina next week. What I find he does well is clean, tight lines, focus on the aesthetically pleasing. He is not minimalist, he is not earthy, he is not natural. He took the Lake of Isles site, as grungy a place as one could fine, and cleaned it up. Same with the Green at Golden Horseshoe, which is much more open and had much more potential for something funky than the Gold course (that his dad did.) I expect that Currituck, despite being on the Outer Banks and full of wild potential, will be prim and proper as a blue-blood school girl's appearance. I hope that I'm wrong.

I think what Rees did was, he looked at Fazio and Hills and their ilk and said, "that's my competition." In fact, that competition rather than a road less traveled mattered to him, was where he began to look like others. I wonder what type of competition there was between his dad and Pete Dye, what his dad thought of Dye, and if Rees figured, I can't look like Dye because my dad doesn't look like Dye.

[Bill_McBride]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but that first picture of Burnt Pinr is bad beyond belief. If this is any Rees fan here, I'd love to hear a defense of that work.

For starters, one doesn't play golf from an aircraft.

That photo came off the club's website, they are proud of that look. 

[Tom MacWood]

I know that Rees' work gets a lot of negative attention here (and I'm certainly part of it).  But there must be something that keeps him in business - he has many courses designed, and people in general (not here) seem to like his designs.

That said, what do you like about Rees' designs?

Dan
Yours is a pretty strange post for someone who has never played a Rees Jones courses.

[Ronald Montesano]

Tom...where does Dan write that he has never played a Rees?

[Mark Saltzman]

Tom...where does Dan write that he has never played a Rees?

I suspect Mr. Macwood read Dan's other thread about Weiskopf, where he says he has never played a Weiskopf design and mixed them up.  I don't think Dan has said he has never played an Rees Jones design.

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike,
I don't think that Rees did Montauk...that is his father's work.

Mike Cirba, Matt Ward and a number of others would disagree:

http://tinyurl.com/3snnkwk

[Ronald Montesano]

Live and learn...Thanks, Mike.

[Tom MacWood]

Tom...where does Dan write that he has never played a Rees?

He doesn't and perhaps he has played some Rees' courses, but its still a strange thread considering Rees has been flying under the radar (relatively speaking) for years. Six or seven years ago, or longer, he was the number one whipping boy around here for his bland designs and high profile restorations. I couldn't even tell you what he has done in the last five years....why kick a man when he is down?

[David Harshbarger]

I would like to play Old Kinderhook up in Valdosta, Georgia, heard nothing but good stuff about it.

Bill,

Tom Weiskopf has an "Old Kinderhook" in MO.  http://www.oldkinderhook.com/golf.asp. It features valleys, waterfalls, hills, trees, a lake...golf nirvana?

Rees has "Olde Kinderhook" in NY, which I have heard is well regarded. http://www.reesjonesinc.com/olde-kinderhook/

Both opened in 1999.  

[Mark Pritchett]

Kinderlou Forest by Love Golf Design is in Valdosta, Georgia. 

[Bill_McBride]

I am easily confused.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kyle Harris is correct.

Since when are bunkers judged by their aerial appearance ?

It's how they look and play to the golfer that's the critical issue.

Almost every course has ovular, circular or symetrical bunkers from the air. even at NGLA.

The test isn't how the golf course looks from 5,000 feet, but how it looks when the golfer is standing on his feet..

Dan,

Have you played any Rees Jones courses ?
If so, which ones ?

[Dan Herrmann]

Yep - the one that immediately comes to mind is Broad Run here in West Chester, PA.  It has a few good holes and a lot of "not so good" holes.  For example, #2...  Tee off with a 5 iron and you have to hit a 5 wood on your next shot (it's a par 4).  Some really strange routing out there too.

I've also played Sandpines.  Strange course that's pretty devoid of character.

But you can't tell from two courses, that's why I posted the question in the 1st post.  To learn more about his work and about what others' opinions may be.

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat,

I have never played the hole, but that has to be the worst looking picture of a golf hole I have ever seen.

You know NGLA far better than I do, but I'll bet you can't present a picture of NGLA that looks half that bad.

And, of course, a golf hole isn't played from 5,000 feet, but I'm wondering why someone would make that point rather than describe what is good about the hole.

Admit it, it looks awful, but if it is interesting to play, ok, let's hear about it.

[David_Elvins]

That said, what do you like about Rees' designs?

That none of them are in Australia.