Blind Par 3's Good/Bad?

[Emile Bonfiglio]

In my round this morning at H. Chandler Egan's masterpiece (Eastmoreland Golf Course) I came up to the 175 yard Par 3 4th and the tees were at the back of the box, causing you not to be able to see the flag. The green is 40 feet below the tee box. This might be the first time i've played a blind par 3. So, is it a good, bad or neutral design concept? Are there any great blind par 3's?

[Phil McDade]

Emile:

Here's one I found recently, with an excerpt from the thread on the little-known but sporty Macktown GC near Rockford, IL. I liked this one, in part because there was a fairly indentifiable aiming target, and the surrounds weren't overly penal.

No. 17 – a funky par 3 of 176 yards in which, from the white tees, the shot is blind. A small ridge line hides the target; the aiming point is the small, crowned tree just to the right of the golf carts.


Here are two looks at the green, an ample target but one that is sloped sharply from back to front. With some internal contours, this was the most interesting green on the course, and one that’s pretty easy to three-putt. The purist may complain about a blind tee shot to an unknown flag location on a tricky green; I like the old-fashioned nature of the hole, and would argue random outcomes are part of the game.

[Pete Lavallee]

The Dell at Lahinch is hidden behind a sand dune. There is a white rock on top of the dune to indicate the day's pin position. One of the world's best par 3's IMHO.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

I knew the Dell would come up, I almost have to put that in the iconic category like 17 at sawgrass. To "my" holes credit you can see the flag from the edge of the tee box, but it is certainly blind while you are hitting.

[Alex Lagowitz]

The Himalayas 5th hole at Prestwick is also a BLIND par 3...i think it is a good hole though

[Joe_Tucholski]

The only one I recall playing was at Sharp Park.  I think it was #15 but it wasn't designed as a blind par 3 so not sure it counts.  I assume the marsh has moved in and since this is CA it likely can't be touched so the reeds had grown to such a height that on the tee you could not see the green.  You are essentially looking at reeds that are right in front of you.  Someone with a real low ball height may catch the reeds.  I would say this is a bad thing, although I liked my result on the hole.

[Matt_Cohn]

I think par-3's where the front of the tee block blocks the view of the green are completely stupid.

I'm not against blind par-3's in general, just that kind.

[James Boon]

Painswick has two blind par 3s at the 5th and 10th. Both play over the ramparts of an iron age hill fort and are only a short iron, and both to pretty much punchbowl greens, so you can hit a shot which isn't great and the excitement climbing to the crest is has it caught the punchbowl and ended up close? Great fun!

Here's the 5th tee shot


And here's the green seen from behind


Another favourite of mine is the 14th at Hunstanton. You play over a dune ridge at about 150 yards out to a green thats something like 220 yards away, so its often a fairway wood or so. But as the last part is all downhill on the far side of the dune ridge, you have to run your shot in. Great fun to play in foursomes, where you have an opportunity to watch your partners shot running to the green. You know when tyhe green is clear thanks to a green and red light on the tee.  

No apologies from me, I do love blind golf holes! If virtually every course I played had a decent blind par 3 I'd be a happy man! Having said that, there are obviously bad blind holes out there, so its the good ones I love.

Cheers,

James

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think par-3's where the front of the tee block blocks the view of the green are completely stupid.

I'm not against blind par-3's in general, just that kind.

It's obviously much harder to design / build a decent size tee-box on a big drop shot par-3 and to give full visibility from all positions but it can always be done. In my opinion, Emilio's example at the top is just poor design.

[Jim Nugent]

Doesn't Cruden Bay have one? 

[Robin_Hiseman]

Ditto the comments from Ally and Matt.  That is just rubbish tee design.

[Niall C]

As I posted on another thread recently, played Cullen last week and there are two successive par 3's, both of which are blind and play over two different sea stacks. The holes being c.175 yards and 118 yards respectively. The course also has another blind par 3 playing upto a cliff (120 yards from memory). Actually, now I come to think of it there is yet another blind par 3 playing to an upper level (c. 160 yards).

Anyone in need of some blind golf good do worse than stop off at Cullen.

Niall

[Kevin Pallier]

Doesn't Cruden Bay have one? 

15th - a great hole

[Adam Clayman]

Eastmoreland's 4th is one of the great points on the property.

The fact that it's blind from the deepest teeing ground section does not change the hole one bit. It's not blind, when you can see the hole before teeing your ball up on the back of the box.

[James Boon]

I think par-3's where the front of the tee block blocks the view of the green are completely stupid.

I'm not against blind par-3's in general, just that kind.

It's obviously much harder to design / build a decent size tee-box on a big drop shot par-3 and to give full visibility from all positions but it can always be done. In my opinion, Emilio's example at the top is just poor design.

Ally,

As you, Robin and Matt have said, the original example isn't great. A drop shot hole where you can't see whats down there while standing over your ball seems pretty odd to me. Surely they could have had a series of tees stepping down the hillsdie? Here is the 13th at Hollinwell which has 5 different tees stepping down the hill, playing 240odd yards from the very back and dropping quite a bit.


And looking back from behind the green you can just see the tees terraced into the hill above.


If these tees were all on one level then it would be blind from the back also, but I think the terracing works just fine.

Cheers,

James

ps Niall, I've heard about Cullen before. I must make a trip out that way next time I'm in your part of the World!
ps2 Pics of the blind 5th at Painswick added to my earlier post.

[Phil McDade]

Cullen is great fun -- the epitome of what is often referred to in the UK as a "sporty" course. Lots of criss-crossing holes, blind shots, unconventional-length holes, and best of all playing amidst all the giant sea stacks around which the course is routed. Great Cullen skink in the local delicacy, in the clubhouse afterward.

[Adrian_Stiff]

My answer would have to be : Bad.

I think if you like them it is a very minor opinion, it is the very left wing of quirk, ofcourse we all like different things, but in modern design I cant see anyone doing it really. I would be interested in the views of TD if he would ever think about incorporating a blind par 3 into his routing or if he thought it was just too radical.
The 5th and 10th at Painswck are terrible holes if you are totally honest and probably are the ruination of the course to most people. I also think the 5th at Prestwick is pretty dire and gets loved just because its been there and its history associations, as a golf hole if you did this today they would strap you up.

[James Boon]

Adrian,

I like the 5th at Painswick but I think the green on the 10th is way to small. Its fun to play the 10th occasionally but I'd hate to play it every week.

Your point about having blind par 3s on courses being designed today, makes me rethink my own position. I love them on older courses, as they are like looking back at long lost holes such as Majuba, The Maiden and Sandy Parlour. I think I'd feel a bit odd teeing it up on a brand new course with a blind par 3, though a very rare inclusion on a course with a low number of rounds or members wouldn't be too bad?

Cheers,

James

[Adam Lawrence]

We carried an interesting piece on blind par threes a year or two ago; the only architect we interviewed who said he would be keen to build one was Peter Nordwall from Sweden (although obviously Mike Hurdzan, Dana Fry et al had actually done so at Erin Hills).

Though they are interesting and fun in small doses, really they're a relic of the days when balls didn't fly very well and you needed to put greens in hollows to keep grass on them. On the other hand, if a modern architect was presented with a property that included a feature like Temple's tenth - the most unusual blind par three I've seen - I would like to think at least a few would have the bravery and sense of fun to put a green in there!

[mike_malone]

 Pocono Manor's is cool because it is a depression at the green. Hopefully one of the Philly photo guys will post a pic.

[Phil McDade]

Is a blind par 3 all that different than a blind tee shot on a par 4 or 5? Here's a tee shot at a course that many here know well and gets all kind of huzzas; it's a very good hole:



This course has half of its tee shots (non-par 3s) with blind outcomes, and is regarded as one of the best parkland courses in the Midwest: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/canterbury/

[Mark Pritchett]

The 13th hole at Hendersonville (NC) Country Club (Donald Ross) is a short drop shot 3 par that is blind from the back tees.  I think it is fun and works well because it is a short hole which adds a bit of quirk and drama to the round. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian,

I like the 5th at Painswick but I think the green on the 10th is way to small. Its fun to play the 10th occasionally but I'd hate to play it every week.


James

James - I like the 5th too but its not popular when you hear comments.

[James Boon]

Adrian,

I like the 5th at Painswick but I think the green on the 10th is way to small. Its fun to play the 10th occasionally but I'd hate to play it every week.


James

James - I like the 5th too but its not popular when you hear comments.

Adrian,

Its funny, I was thinking of Painswick the other day, and every time I've played, there haven't been many golfers or members of the public out on the Beacon. I don't recall seeing any bells for the blind shots for instance which isn't a problem when its quiet, but I imagine if there are plenty of golfers about and people enjoying a walk in the area, it can get pretty dangerous. Bearing that in mind, its not surprising that some holes an occasional visitor enjoys aren't liked by the regulars.

Cheers,

James

[Anthony Gray]

Doesn't Cruden Bay have one? 

15th - a great hole

  I like it but there are haters.

  Anthony