How many Doak courses have you played?

[Brad Isaacs]

1) Ballyneal
2) Pacific Dunes
3) Old MacDonald (10 holes)
4) ROck Creek
5) Sebonack
6) Renaissance

What they have in common is really good routing.  THis is Doak's strong suit  it seems. 
They are all fun to play (numbers 5 & 6 are the least fun of his that I have played)
The courses are not slaves to par 72.  Playable and not designed for the touring pro. The greens generally have a lot of movement in them.
THey are generally walkable although I would never enjoy walking RockCreek ( I am too fat and out of shape for that)

They are designed for intuitive/creative play.

[Sam Morrow]

I played The Rawls Course, it's the best thing in Lubbock besides easy Tech girls. Of course after playing The Rawls you don't have to see a doctor.

[Andrew Summerell]

7 for me.

Pacific Dunes
Barnbougle Dunes
Beechtree
High Pointe
Stonewall (Old)
Apache Stronghold
St. Andrews Beach

[Jonathan Cummings]

Tom - I disappointed!  Weiman's a piker.  I've played all but 5 - probably a half dozen or more with you!  JC

[paul cowley]

Heathlands
Pacific Dunes
Ballyneal
BDLS (road but not played as it wasn't open)

Unfortunately I don't get out much, but I'm trying to correct that!

Tom...curious, have you played any of mine?   

[Bill Brightly]

Michael,

I checked with the wife, an infrequent player, and asked her about the walk at Cape Kidnappers. She thought it was not a hard walk and said "they did a really good job with the bridges over the ravines" and when we were done, she wanted to play it again, an absolute first for her! She normally thinks 12 holes is plenty. No doubt the stunning views had a lot to do with that feeling...

I dunno Mike, might be the 60 number

[Sean Leary]

Tom - I disappointed!  Weiman's a piker.  I've played all but 5 - probably a half dozen or more with you!  JC

JC,

Which ones haven't you played?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I love Tom's work, but I am not able to be a doakaphile.

[John Foley]

I got one - Legends Heathland

Need to improve that record.

[Tim_Weiman]

Scott Warren,

Actually, I forgot to include Tumble Creek, so maybe I can keep the lead!

But, seriously I would not discount the importance of walking a course, especially if it can be done with the architect as I did with Tom at Sebonack and Old Macdonald. It gives you more opportunity to study the course and to ask questions about why a particular decision was made. Most importantly, if you walk a course during construction it gives you more of a sense of the creative process than just playing the finished product.

[Jonathan Cummings]

1  High Pointe  [NLE]
2  Legends (Heathland)
3  Black Forest
4  Charlotte Golf Links
5  Stonewall (Old)
6  Quail Crossing   NO
7  Beechtree  [NLE]
8  Apache Stronghold
9  Lost Dunes
10  Riverfront

11  Village Club of Sands Point  NO
12  Atlantic City CC
13  Pacific Dunes
14  The Sheep Ranch  (shhh)
15  The Rawls Course  NO
16  Stonewall (North)
17  Cape Kidnappers
18  Barnbougle Dunes
19  St. Andrews Beach
20  Tumble Creek

21  Stone Eagle
22  Ballyneal
23  Sebonack
24  The Renaissance Club
25  Rock Creek
26  Aetna Springs
27  Common Ground
28  Bay of Dreams  NO
29  Old Macdonald 
30  Streamsong (Blue)  NO
 
 
 
 

[Mac Plumart]

J.C.


Which are must plays?  Which add something new in the context of Doak's evolution?  Which ones are don't seem to add anything new?

[Michael Whitaker]

Michael,

I checked with the wife, an infrequent player, and asked her about the walk at Cape Kidnappers. She thought it was not a hard walk and said "they did a really good job with the bridges over the ravines" and when we were done, she wanted to play it again, an absolute first for her! She normally thinks 12 holes is plenty. No doubt the stunning views had a lot to do with that feeling...

I dunno Mike, might be the 60 number

Bill,

Excuse me, but if I remember correctly your wife runs in marathons and takes bicycle trips across Europe... or some such athletic endeavors. I think she could probably walk most guys on this forum "under the table."    

These opinions are all relative. I walked CK on a moderate temperature, low humidity day and still found it a grind... especially that climb up to the 16th tee so late in the round.



...which did result in this beautiful view of the hole (not gentle property, that)...


... then, back down the stairway and across the walkway to make this climb up the fairway...


..followed by this climb to the green...


My tongue was hanging out!

[Michael Whitaker]

Are we talking about uphill shots or uphill shots where the miss is punished with a blind or semi-blind recovery or both?  In my mind, there's a difference, especially if we are looking for themes in the routings.  Unless the course is on completely flat terrain, it would be hard to avoid the first kind described.  

Do you notice the uphill nature of the shots more at St. Andrew's Beach because the punishment for a miss is generally severe?

Your question is a very good one. At StAB there was a premium on hitting the correct levels on many holes. If you missed your tee shot and didn't clear a hill or reach a plateau the penalty, as you say, was a blind or semi-blind uphill shot. I experienced a lot of those, which is why I think the course plays very different for skilled versus average golfers.

As for walkability, courses with a gradual uphills and downhills are a lot easier on the legs than those with a series of sharp inclines and declines.  I think Ballyneal falls in the former group and St. Andrew's Beach in the latter.  From your pictures, it appears that Cape Kidnappers is more like SAB than BN.

Ballyneal is no trouble to walk at all. Smooth as silk. I found Ballyneal to be a user-friendly course... much more like Pacific Dunes in that regard. There were a lot of uphill and downhill treks at StAB and CK. I agree that sharp downhill walks are nearly as tiring on the legs as steep uphill climbs. It was the "down into a valley, up over the hill, down into another valley, then up to the green" routine that wore me out. I guess on severe property that is often unavoidable, but I wondered at StAB why more of the holes were not routed between the dunes rather than up and over them. StAB beach is a fabulous course and many on here (David Elvins, for one) think it is one of the very best in the world. I guess that is what makes Tom Doak, Tom Doak... he able to see these type holes where others might take a more "conventional" route.

[Kevin Pallier]

I've seen the following:

12  Atlantic City CC
13  Pacific Dunes
18  Barnbougle Dunes
19  St. Andrews Beach
22  Ballyneal [through snow  ]
23  Sebonack
29  Old Macdonald  

Pacific Dunes and OM are my favourites followed by Barnbougle Dunes.

[Mark Saltzman]

Beechtree Golf Club
Old MacDonald
Pacific Dunes
Tumble Creek
Rock Creek Cattle Co
Ballyneal
Common Ground
Toured DR2

[Jud_T]

It's amazing the concentration of courses everyone's played.  I'd like to see the breakdown by number of plays...

[Bill Brightly]

Bill,

Excuse me, but if I remember correctly your wife runs in marathons and takes bicycle trips across Europe... or some such athletic endeavors. I think she could probably walk most guys on this forum "under the table."    



Mike,

No marathons, she is not a runner. But she did just go on a serious bike trip in Switzerland


I was wondering when you would get to the steps on 17! Quite a hike at the end of round, but you just know the view up there will be worth it, especialy for a destination course.



[/quote]

[Michael Whitaker]

Bill - It's #16. Do you mean these views:





Yes, it was worth it.