How many Doak courses have you played?

[Emile Bonfiglio]

I've only played Pac Dunes, but I feel like everyday "I'm on a Doak" thanks to that wonderful song!

[Mark Chaplin]

None

[John Kavanaugh]

None

Please keep it that way. I have never seen the movie Caddyshack and recently found myself watching it for a few minutes.  I started feeling my innocence slipping away and quickly turned the channel.  What's up with the Irish chick anyway?  Was she considered hot for the time? It's in the hole. Really?  Doak is quickly becoming the same cliche, be our one hold out.

[Eric Smith]

I feel like everyday "I'm on a Doak" thanks to that wonderful song!

I can't stand it!

[JC Jones]

Listed in order of preference...

1. Pacific Dunes
2. High Point
3. Beechtree
4. Black Forest

What they have in common?  
-Space off the tee if you don't put a premium on angle into the greens.
-Accuracy is demanded on the approaches into greens with preferred areas to "miss"
-Exciting/fun for the mid-handicap golfer because the course does not beat you up yet can be frustrating for the low handicapper to shoot what he/she thinks they should be able to score
-No prescribed method for how to approach a hole; not formulaic; makes you think one or two shots in advance

I do wish High Point would make it back - that was the course where my eyes were opened to good design and the course where I really learned to appreciate architecture more and put me on a life-long course to read/experience as much as I could as it relates to golf course design, architecture, strategy, maintenance, etc.  I consider myself very fortunate to have played there for it has added an immeasurable amount to my appreciation for this great pursuit.

The criteria listed above are not to be found at Black Forest.

[David Kelly]

3  Tends to route up and down hills rather than along valleys, as a result not always easy to walk.

Michael,

I agree that some can be tough walks - St. Andrews Beach being probably the toughest however they are all walkable (with the exception of StoneEagle for most people) and they are all routed with the walker in mind. More than almost any other architect his courses are designed to be walked.

[Michael Whitaker]

Black Forest
Heathland at Legends Resort
St Andrews Beach
Barnbougle Dunes
Cape Kidnappers
Pacific Dunes
Old MacDonald
Ballyneal
Tour of Dismal River routing

General observations:

1  Lots of width.
2  Lots of uphill approach shots.
3  Tends to route up and down hills rather than along valleys, as a result not always easy to walk.
4  Beautifully shaped and tied into terrain.
5  Meaningful bunkering. Few, if any, non-purposeful bunkers.
6  Very bold greens with a fair amount of internal contouring.
7  Not generally card & pencil friendly (which is OK with me)
8  A good number of 1/2 par holes.
9  Reward imagination and well thought out play
10  Rarely cause a lost ball

Could come up with 100 more thoughts, but this is the top 10 that popped into my head.

My favorite so far is Old MacDonald. Barnbougle and Pacific Dunes are just slightly behind, but Old Mac is a unique course unlike anything else on the planet.

I'm going to play a few more "Doak Originals" before the year is out:  Lost Dunes and (hopefully) the courses at Stonewall. I'm also going to try and get down to Atlantic CC and see the redo there before I have to move back to SC at the end of November.

PS - Anthony, it is good to have you back!!!

Revised list... I forgot about Renaissance Club!

Black Forest
Heathland at Legends Resort
St Andrews Beach
Barnbougle Dunes
Cape Kidnappers
Pacific Dunes
Old MacDonald
Ballyneal
Tour of Dismal River routing
Renaissance Club

[John Kavanaugh]

I feel like everyday "I'm on a Doak" thanks to that wonderful song!

I can't stand it!

The Doak Borg has us on board too buddy.  Maybe Tiger would have been a more interesting choice, at least around here. God I hope I don't hate Doak before I even see the new course.

[Michael Whitaker]

3  Tends to route up and down hills rather than along valleys, as a result not always easy to walk.

Michael,

I agree that some can be tough walks - St. Andrews Beach being probably the toughest however they are all walkable (with the exception of StoneEagle for most people) and they are all routed with the walker in mind. More than almost any other architect his courses are designed to be walked.

David,

That might be true from the standpoint of the relationship of greens to tees, but a couple of Doak's courses, St Andrews Beach and Cape Kidnappers, were a couple of the toughest walks I have had a on a golf course.

On the other hand... Ballyneal, Pacific Dunes and Old Mac are as pleasant to walk as it gets. So, maybe he just does a better job on flatter ground.  

[Kalen Braley]

Quail Crossing
Pacific Dunes
Stonewall Old
Atlantic City CC
Legends Heathland
Beechtree

My favorite being Beechtree, and I also played it way more than any of the others.

What do they have in common?:  fun to play.

Joe,

I'm surprised this little bomb you dropped slipped by so many people.

Were you serious when you said you like/prefer/favor Beechtree over Pacific Dunes? Meaning if you have 10 rounds, you'd split it up
at least 6-4 in favor of Beechtree if not 7-3 or 8-2? Beechtree was an interesting course, I'll give it that...but it was nowhere in the solar system as Pacific Dunes. 

I'd be curious to hear more on this.

Thanks,

[Cory Lewis]

I had the great pleasure of working at a Doak course, Beechtree, for two and a half wonderful years.  I've played a total of 10 of his courses, not counting his work at Atlantic City.  Hopefully will play two more next year!.

[Mac Plumart]

I feel like everyday "I'm on a Doak" thanks to that wonderful song!

I can't stand it!

I think the idea is neat and funny, but too much vulgar language for my taste.

Doak's I've played...

Rennaissance
Sebonack
Ballyneal
Rock Creek
Walked Commonground
Seen the Dismal Doak


I think that is it...I'll be playing Old Mac and Pacific Dunes later this year.

Common themes...interesting greens, ground game options, wonderful routing, natural setting

Frankly, I really like the Nicklaus/Doak built Sebonack.  You get the thrill of Nicklaus tee to green and the natural routing of Doak with great greens.

[Kyle Harris]

Kalen:

You didn't exactly play Beechtree under the best of circumstances...

[Jim Colton]

3

Legends Heathland
Pac Dunes (10&8 any TPC!)
Ballyneal

Mac,
I agree with you on I'm on a Doak.

Actually, that'd be a good name for David Kelly's book after he plays them all.

[Andy Troeger]

Seven for me:

Apache Stronghold
Ballyneal
Charlotte Links
Lost Dunes
Old MacDonald
Pacific Dunes
Rock Creek

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Quote from: Chris Hufnagel on Today at 04:01:58 PM
Listed in order of preference...

1. Pacific Dunes
2. High Point
3. Beechtree
4. Black Forest

What they have in common? 
-Space off the tee if you don't put a premium on angle into the greens.
-Accuracy is demanded on the approaches into greens with preferred areas to "miss"
-Exciting/fun for the mid-handicap golfer because the course does not beat you up yet can be frustrating for the low handicapper to shoot what he/she thinks they should be able to score
-No prescribed method for how to approach a hole; not formulaic; makes you think one or two shots in advance

I do wish High Point would make it back - that was the course where my eyes were opened to good design and the course where I really learned to appreciate architecture more and put me on a life-long course to read/experience as much as I could as it relates to golf course design, architecture, strategy, maintenance, etc.  I consider myself very fortunate to have played there for it has added an immeasurable amount to my appreciation for this great pursuit.


The criteria listed above are not to be found at Black Forest.



JC- I think you are probably right about Black Forest, particularly about the level of difficulty for the mid/high handicapper.  I was thinking more of the other courses when I was trying to think of similarities between the Doak's I have played and it is probably a bit skewed as I have play Pacific Dunes three times more than the others combined.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen:

You didn't exactly play Beechtree under the best of circumstances...

True,

But the course played plenty fast and firm. 

I certainly wouldn't claim to be an expert on Beechtree, but I do know its nowhere near what i saw/played/experience at Pac Dunes.  Or RCCC and Ballyneal for that matter, which both are comparable to Pacific Dunes and indeed are in its league.

[Ben Jarvis]

Pacific Dunes
Barnbougle Dunes
Old Macdonald
St. Andrews Beach

All of them have outstanding greensites, placing a premium on the angles of approaches.

While the courses are very playable for the average golfer, they are also challenging for the lower marker. They are all fun and exciting, no matter the conditions.

[Brent Carlson]

- Pac Dunes - It's just so much fun; haven't played anything more enjoyable

- Sheep Ranch - One of a kind

- Black Forest - BF is perhaps the hardest golf course I've ever played; great bunkering; very secluded feeling

- High Pointe - This course needs to reopen somehow; it's top 3 in the TC area; is it still being maintained?  any chance at reopen? 

[Tim_Weiman]

High Pointe
Stonewall - both courses
Lost Dunes
Atantic City
Pacific Dunes
Old Macdonald - walked while under construction
Legends Heathland
Renaissance
Tumble Creek
Barnbougle Dunes
Cape Kidnappers
St Andrews Beach - my favorite
Black Forest
Common Ground
Sebonack - walked while under construction
Beechtree - toured
Ballyneal
Rock Creek

Quite diverse venues to say the least!

[Peter Ferlicca]

Well I have had the great pleasure of spending 3 winters working at Stone Eagle and one summer working at Tumble Creek.  With many rounds under my belt at those two courses the last four years, I can say I really appreciate his architecture.

I have played, In order of favorite to least, though least is still pretty golf

Tie 1.  Pacific Dunes
Tie 1.  Ballyneal
Tie 1.  Rock Creek Cattle Company
4.  Old MacDonald
5.  Stone Eagle
6.  Tumble Creek
7.  Commonground  (Awesome course for the public)

All of his courses have very interesting set of greens, width off the tee, angles into the greens, strategy on where to place the ball, great looking bunkers, pretty settings, and of course fun golf holes.

[Ian Andrew]

High Pointe
Pacific Dunes
Old Macdonald
Barnbougle Dunes
St Andrews Beach (toured with Mike Clayton)
Common Ground
Sebonack
Ballyneal
Rock Creek

[Bill Brightly]

My list, in order favorites:

Old Macdonald (Perhaps my Macdonald bias puts it #1)
Barnbougle Dunes (A dream canvas with minimum intervention, just superb)
Pacific Dunes (A dream canvas, superbly conceived)
Stone Eagle (The best desert course I have ever played)
Beechtree (Best design of a limited site I have ever played, which is probably another great way to judge good GCA)
Cape Kidnappers (Undeniably awesome, but not a true Doak. Could have been built by many other GCA's)
Lengends - Heathlands (played it 20 years before I even knew who Tom Doak was.)

General observations

Mininimalism, sminimalism. There is one thing he gets right: golf courses that are FUN to play.

[Alex Miller]

My list, in order favorites:

Old Macdonald (Perhaps my Macdonald bias puts it #1)
Barnbougle Dunes (A dream canvas with minimum intervention, just superb)
Pacific Dunes (A dream canvas, superbly conceived)
Stone Eagle (The best desert course I have ever played)
Beechtree (Best design of a limited site I have ever played, which is probably another great way to judge good GCA)
Cape Kidnappers (Undeniably awesome, but not a true Doak. Could have been built by many other GCA's)
Lengends - Heathlands (played it 20 years before I even knew who Tom Doak was.)

General observations

Mininimalism, sminimalism. There is one thing he gets right: golf courses that are FUN to play.

Re: Cape Kidnappers

Really Bill? I've never been, but have seen many a photo and aerial. It seems to me it was not an easy course to rout. Do you think the other GCA's who could've built on that site would've done as good a job or made all the same decisions? Just curious...

[Martin Toal]

Mmm, let me count ..... to the nearest round figure, that would be none.