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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2011, 07:34:53 AM »
Jordan, I don't follow your logic. Times are tough, money is tight, people are done wasting millions on golf course designs. So, efficient, lower cost designs will be the only ones that might get built.

The average golfer argument is not compelling, nor accurate. Rustic Canyon is the case in point. Even Southern Californians appreciate it.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2011, 08:16:32 AM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on August 05, 2011, 07:34:53 AM
Jordan, I don't follow your logic. Times are tough, money is tight, people are done wasting millions on golf course designs. So, efficient, lower cost designs will be the only ones that might get built.

The average golfer argument is not compelling, nor accurate. Rustic Canyon is the case in point. Even Southern Californians appreciate it.

Agree with AC here.  We are building a second (_____) course out here and we are ridiculously affordable.  Cost is not much of a barrier but you do have to be a good guy to be invited.  Allows for a great cross section of membership without having to donate a lung.  Minimalist works, and you don't even need to bring a sportcoat.   
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2011, 09:55:02 AM »
I guess my issue with the term is that when I first heard it, relative to gca, about 15 years ago it did have a direct correlation to quantites of dirt moved because the guys that owned the 80's and 90's were moving tons of dirt to do it. The proponents of minimalism believed there was a better way. Now it's become about the result as opposed to the process, hence my pending application for a copyright of faux naturale.

Adam,

I understand where you're coming from on this, and in truth it matters little how the word is defined as long as the golf is good. It just feels like the word caught on and has been diluted based on the realitries of building an architecture business...but maybe I never understood it properly.

I wish I were more educated on these particular courses as opposed to speaking to the conversations about these courses...I couldn't possibly contribute to that "Last 10" thread because it would go back about 4 years...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 09:59:29 AM by Jim Sullivan »
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David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2011, 11:07:05 AM »
To paraphrase Hermann Goering, when I hear the term minimalism I reach for my Luger.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2011, 11:46:02 AM »
In my humble opinion, the notion of minimalism came about because of the era.

It was a way of saying not all sites for golf are created equal.

And rarely can we create natural features that are as stunning to look at as those which already exist.

Hence, it makes more sense to begin choosing sites more wisely, and build sensitively, thus preserving those stunning natural features.

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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Jordan Caron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2011, 02:11:14 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on August 05, 2011, 07:34:53 AM
Jordan, I don't follow your logic. Times are tough, money is tight, people are done wasting millions on golf course designs. So, efficient, lower cost designs will be the only ones that might get built.

The average golfer argument is not compelling, nor accurate. Rustic Canyon is the case in point. Even Southern Californians appreciate it.

I was referring to the golfers who would join these courses.  Yes the costs are lower to build and maintain these courses. 

Do you have any other exceptions besides Rustic Canyon?  From my experience, the average golfer gets blown away by lush fairways, white sandy bunkers and fountains in ponds. 
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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2011, 06:11:11 PM »
Chris J:

All that post is missing is "to enquire about this exciting opportunity, phone 555-238-249!".
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Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2011, 06:31:58 PM »
Quote from: Scott Warren on August 05, 2011, 06:11:11 PM
Chris J:

All that post is missing is "to enquire about this exciting opportunity, phone 555-238-249!".

If really great golf at a moderate cost is your bag, feel free.   ;)

Point was, there should be a lower cost factor for really terrific minimalist (low cost to build and less cost to maintain) places.  Good and simplistic needn't be really expensive.  These days, minimal debt is also good. 
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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2011, 08:07:15 PM »
Quote from: Scott Warren on August 05, 2011, 06:11:11 PM
Chris J:

All that post is missing is "to enquire about this exciting opportunity, phone 555-238-249!".

Though I would recommend one perform an inquiry rather than an enquiry when joining a golf club. ;D
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2011, 09:10:37 PM »
Sully, Do you remember about 8 or nine years ago, (maybe more?) one of the architects posted the story (or Lyrics) on "Minimalists Blues"? It was sung at one of their Tartan Clad meetings? I recall inferring they were snickering at the boys (Doak, C&C, Hanse, DeVries, Axkand & Proctor etc.)

There's some really inexpensive examples not far from the I-80 corridor here in W. Nebraska.  Come see what you're missing.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is "minimalism" a myth ?
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2011, 10:45:46 PM »
Quote from: Michael Dugger on August 05, 2011, 11:46:02 AM
In my humble opinion, the notion of minimalism came about because of the era.

It was a way of saying not all sites for golf are created equal.

And rarely can we create natural features that are as stunning to look at as those which already exist.

Hence, it makes more sense to begin choosing sites more wisely, and build sensitively, thus preserving those stunning natural features.



Excellent.  Site and restraint....based on respect, conviction, and humility.
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The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright
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