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Donnie Luper

Pikewood National
« on: August 01, 2011, 10:34:58 PM »
I had the pleasure of playing Pikewood National in late June and was just wondering what others thought of this course. I loved it except for the fact that there were only 2 sets of tees. Nothing for older seniors or women as far as a set of tees. I think it has a great set of par 3's and it was in as good of shape as any course I have played in the last 5 years. Any comments on this course?

Andy Troeger

Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 11:06:07 PM »
Donnie,

I'll tell you in about 45 days. How is the playability? It looks pretty tough in photos. I've heard some great things. As good as Pete Dye GC?

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 11:35:04 AM »
Pikewood National has no shame in taking you the woodshed and giving you a beating. I think it has great potential but with the short set of tees at about 6900 yards and a lot of uphill shots it was way too much for this 64 year old. It is a good thing I was on intimate terms with my three wood.   Bob Friend, the DOG, did say they are thinking about adding more tees. I went thinking it might be nice to have a mt course relatively close to home for my wife and me. If it had a set of tees about 6500 yards and 5000 yards for my wife I would join. It is that good.
Good luck Andy, I am interested in you impressions.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 01:23:50 PM »
From above I see straight and boring holes.
The greens from eye level pictures look manufactured.
I liked seeing no containment mounding.
I like the 2 tee aspect most - it is what it is - a test and examination.
Good for them - not for me.
cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 01:44:34 PM »
Regarding the first comment (straight and boring holes) I don't see how, Mike...http://www.pikewoodnational.com/index2.html

Of the 14 non-par threes, at least half have some doglegged movement...sometimes subtle, sometimes not.

We made an attempt to play it a few years back but were rebuffed. Went to Pete Dye GC instead...hard to imagine Pikewood topping that masterpiece.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 05:43:56 PM »
Thanks Ronald
However many are straight - it is too many for my tastes.
They look like they were laid out with the turning point stencils - but skinnier.
The tree clearing looks artificially straight - because it is.
Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 01:29:31 AM »
As a WVU alum, my wife and I lived in Morgantown during and after the time the original nine opened. We both caddied there, as well as Pete Dye. Sadly, since the ownership change, the caddie program at Dye was shuttered.

I plan on playing the course this Fall, as I intend to go the our pivotal football game with LSU Sept. 24.

My impressions, having last played the original 9 in 2008 and no rounds on the new nine. Obviously, all comments are regarding original nine only. Routing was pretty solid. While a couple of holes are somewhat straight, the fairway undulations, while subtle, offered a lot of ball movement and controlling shots was a factor, especially when the course firmed up, which happened frequently.

The course is demanding, but it didn't play unfairly...you just had to play golf! I will say that the construction was not directed by seasoned, professional architects or shapers. Some of the soil coverage over the landing areas was/is thin. The ground is very rocky, remember this is West Virginia we're talking about! That said, the owner and his team, overall, did a damn good job on a challenging site for that first nine.

The tree clearing, while perhaps having a mediocre look from an aerial, has a random feel to it in most places. Speaking as someone with an arborist background, one couldn't really knock the results from what or how they cleared. Could the clearing have had more width in spots? YES! The owner, however, didn't intend this course to be an easy play...on any day, in any way!

It is a bit of an examination, but adding tees to arrive around 6,500 and maybe 5,500 for the forwards, they'd have it all covered. Again, I'm not sure what the next nine holds, but I imagine a similar MO was the approach.

The clubhouse, range etc., are understated and first-class.  From my experience, the folks that run it have always been warm and cordial. It is quite private though, so knowing someone will be helpful if you wish to play. I believe they are looking for national members and the serenity and views are hard to beat. It flys under the radar, but just based on the nine I've played (50 caddie rounds,15 plays) it's  well-worth seeing and playing.

I would certainly put it on the equal of Pete Dye Club if the second nine is on par with what I know is there on that original nine. The greens are more interesting. It's FAR more natural looking. Pete's place always had a little too much of a vaudville-feel to it for me. There's one green on Pete's that is an abortion. I can usually remember holes on a course, but I've tried to forget that one!  Even if you can hold it, a three putt is assured about 75% of the time...BBBAAAAAD! That said, there are some good holes there as well.

Hope that sheds some light on what's at Pikewood. At least nine of it anyway!  ;D

Cheers,
Kris
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 01:36:31 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

fred ruttenberg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2011, 01:34:02 PM »
This is one of the most stunning course settings that I have ever seen with spectacular views from almost any hole.  Walking only and it is very difficult.  The course is not only long (7500) from the back tees but has significant elevation changes.  Any serious and fit golfer should want to play this course.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2011, 06:18:12 PM »
Some information on John Raese, the owner and co-architect of Pikewood National.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Raese

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 05:02:52 PM »
Thank you for sharing Kris
I'm sure it is nice
I'm thinking along our modern * rankings
It is tough competition to get a *
I looked at the video and many of the green sites look boring to me as well
cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 05:50:39 PM »
Mike,

I believe you would enjoy the golf course, even the greens, of the original nine. Can't speak yet as to the rest.  It is demanding, and I'm sure you'd see ample evidence that amateurs were at work on parts of it. That said, and I'm a tough critic, overall they got a lot right.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 05:54:05 PM »
Anyone care to explain what the word 'National' means in the context of Golf Course nomenclature?
thanks in advance,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 06:42:13 PM »
This is one of the most stunning course settings that I have ever seen . . . .  Any serious and fit golfer should want to play this course.

Fred, just to be the devil's advocate . . . .   I'm a very serious golfer, almost age 70 with an 18.1 index.  I'm fit.  I've been a long distance runner for the past 40 years (and still going).  Moreover, I was born and raised on Kingwood Pike (Pikewood's street address, and on which I've done some running) not more than 10 miles from where the Pikewood course is today.  My family belonged to Dyke Raese's (John Raese's father, to whom Pikewood is dedicated) club in the 1950s . . . suggesting nostalgic reasons for playing the course.  Still, given what I've read about the Pikewood course . . . the length and carries off the tees as they're set up now . . . I really don't think I want to play it.  Can you convince me that I am wrong?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 09:20:18 PM by Carl Johnson »

Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 06:53:00 PM »
Pikewood was one of the most fun experiences I've ever had on the golf course.  It's the type of place I would love to build if I had the guts!  I loved the simplicity of some of the holes.  The challenge came from the natural features and not from being overbunkered or from having thick rough.  The walk itself is very challenging yet rewarding at the same time, at times you feel like you are walking on a nature trail. 
Instagram: @2000golfcourses
http://2000golfcourses.blogspot.com

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2011, 12:49:11 AM »
Carl,

I believe you would enjoy the golf course. The original nine only had two carries that I would deem somewhat challenging for someone such as yourself, and if you hit about 170 in the air, you'd be fine. Again, this course was designed as a stout test on a challenging site. With refinements it could be playable for anyone. As it is private, the owners built for their tastes. As they aren't youngsters, as they age and their skills diminish, the course will probably soften accordingly, to allow them something more than the Pikewood death march to enjoy! ;D

Corey,

Glad you liked it! If you could be so kind, please expand on what you found, particularly the newer nine. I hope to play it this Fall and am eager to hear more. Does it compliment the original 9 well? Are the holes routed over similar ground? What's different and were the carry distances significant on many of the newer holes.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 09:55:02 AM »
Anyone care to explain what the word 'National' means in the context of Golf Course nomenclature?
thanks in advance,
F.

I'll take a try at this.  Obviously, there's no single right answer.  Others may be able to come up with more clever ideas.

First, it means that, as a marketing device, you're trying to associate your course in people's minds with the mystique of Augusta National Golf Club.  E.g., Charlotte National Golf Club, a not-bad public course near Charlotte.  http://www.charlottenationalgc.com/

Second, it's a signal meaning that the private club is seeking members from the entire nation, meaning that they're the kind of big shot people with the time and money to travel a long distance to play golf, and that, therefore, they are the kind of people, such as yourself, that it's a privilege to be associated with, or thought to be associated with.

Third, first and second.

That's all I can come up with.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 09:57:23 AM by Carl Johnson »

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 02:58:50 PM »
Thanks Carl!
That seems to fit with my understanding.
Marketing and Snobbery! ;D
cheers,
MB.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

fred ruttenberg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2011, 04:58:36 PM »
Carl:
Carries off the tee (like,for example, Pine Valley) was not a problem.  Fairways are generous.  There are just few holes where I could hit a short iron to a green (other than as a result of laying up).  I would have enjoyed the round more if I could have played from 6400 yards.

Still-the course is a breaktaking experience.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2011, 03:04:42 PM »
I played here yesterday and thought it was terrific. I was expecting a boring tree lined course like Mike Nuzzo suggested and what some pictures looked like, but found a brutal yet charming test of golf. I only had one tee shot that I had to play from the woods and I am not the straightest driver of the ball. The greens were very cool. They tend to be "Oakmont" fast which makes sense because there are Oakmont members everywhere. There did not seem to be a lot of dirt moved as the course flowed nicely on the land. The elevation change was pretty dramatic on several holes and the par threes were about as diverse and as good as I have played.

Hearing how they "found" certain holes and developed the course was very interesting. The par 3 5th has a natural waterfall behind it that would make Trump blush. The Donald pays millions for what they found hidden in the woods. Gorgeous hole. The short par 4 6th could have been my favorite hole. The green has three distinct areas to have a pin so your approach needs to be precise. Then there are the views. Simply amazing.

There are rock outcroppings everywhere which add to the aesthetics. Overall it was a fantastic experience. It is in my top 30 favorite US courses. No disrespect to Pikewood, but Rock Creek still should have won "Best New" in '08, although it is MUCH closer than I expected. Pikewood is a treat. Congrats to them for a first class club and fantastic golf course.
Mr Hurricane

Andy Troeger

Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2011, 07:13:47 PM »
Played Pikewood with Jim yesterday. I agree with much of what he said about the course, the views, and the experience. All are top notch. The par threes are really excellent and the par fives offer some great risk/reward opportunities. The golf course is very difficult, but its a more "fun" difficult than most of the courses I've seen with really high slopes (155 tips and 151 from the other tees). Unlike Jim I had a hard time driving it between the treelines, but the caddies found all of my wayward drives and I managed to recover well from most of them. I got too greedy once and hit one other drive about 40 yards into the woods and that's not recommended! Even that ball was found and had a swing. I played the course with one ball.

I liked how the course really was naturally laid out other than the tree clearing. Some dirt was moved to create greens and tees, but otherwise it was as found per our host who was also part of the design team. They had a vision and executed it very well. As others have mentioned, the course is tough and the "short" tees measure almost 6900 yards. Given the rain the area had last week, the course played LONG and I wouldn't suggest that this course is meant for everyone. There are forced carries, but anyone capable of handing 6900 yards of golf would be able to handle the carries as well. Its also a tough walk and there are no carts--there are a few longish walks between holes and the front nine is over very severe terrain. The most severe slopes come between holes, but at least a couple paths required switchbacks to traverse the hills. I like to hike, so this actually added to the experience for me, but its a workout.

The greens are well done too--enough contour to be interesting, but reasonable at faster green speeds. They flowed well with the existing slopes of the property including the brilliant 11th which sloped front to back down the hill.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2011, 09:05:12 AM »
Jim and Andy,

Glad you liked the course! Your takes are very accurate. The evaluations of the ground and what is presented were both spot on.
TICKLED that your caddies were so solid and "bird-dogged" errant shots so well. I did much of the caddie-training for the staff there during the early days and am heartened to hear they are still making QUALITY caddie experiences a priority. On that track, quality caddies REALLY make a difference, as it is a rugged, though enchanting, outing.  

I believe the stature and appreciation for PN will grow over time, as they refine it and more folks get a shot at it. You certainly have to play golf there, but what I think it delivers best is a stiff challenge that also manages to excite and spur on the player. Tough courses often leave the player(s) feeling deflated and whipped at the conclusion; I 've never felt that when I 've played out there.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 04:45:18 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2011, 09:57:05 AM »
I had the chance to play Pikewood National about a year ago as the 2nd round of a 36 hole day that included Pete Dye GC.  It's an incredible place.

The impression that Mike Nuzzo had upon first looking at the aerial was the same as mine, that it looks rather uninspired cutting through the forest.  When you see it on the ground, you find that it is exactly the opposite.  I don't know why I felt it, but walking down the hill toward the first tee, you knew that you were in for a real serious round of golf and the opening tee shot didn't disappoint as it's sets the table for the round.  There's a reasonable amount of room between the tree lines and enough fairway, but similar to Pine Valley, you know that hitting it into the trees is not good.  Ironically, the only drive I hit in the trees was on number one.  The course weaves it's way through the forest using the topography really well.  There's not an overabundance of man made hazards and it really doesn't need them.  It was very subtle, but Raese and friends used a lot of subtle features from the classics like the Road look on #4, the creek splitting fairway on 7, the Ross like 11th, the redanish 12th, and 13 looks an awful lot like Flynn.  8 reminded me of 6 at Sunningdale New, an awesome par 5. 

Admittedly, Pikewood is a long and difficult golf course but that's part of the joy and challenge of the place.   It's not the easiest walk, but far from impossible even for the 2nd round of the day like I did it.  It's definitely worth the effort to visit. 

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2011, 10:47:42 AM »
The greens were very cool. They tend to be "Oakmont" fast which makes sense because there are Oakmont members everywhere. There are rock outcroppings everywhere which add to the aesthetics. Overall it was a fantastic experience. It is in my top 30 favorite US courses. 

Their Superintendent was an Assistant at Oakmont for years before coming to Pikewood 2 years ago.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2014, 02:32:02 PM »
Bump.  Has anyone else played PN?

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2014, 04:09:13 PM »
I have not and will never play Pikewood National.  I also know that if I attempted to play Pikewood National I would not be allowed.

Care to elaborate?

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