News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great review. I would love to see what the MacKenzie guys could come up with for Haggin Oaks here in Sacramento. I have seen the original plans for Haggin in the restaurant but wonder if any aerial photgraphs exist of the original Mac course.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 03:02:46 PM by Tim Leahy »
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
For what it's worth, the short 8th was not in play back in the early 80's.  It was there as a practice hole and only put into play when some other hole was out of play.  Similar to the small drop shot par 3 that is behind the 2nd green at Tilden Park.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
For what it's worth, the short 8th was not in play back in the early 80's.  It was there as a practice hole and only put into play when some other hole was out of play.  Similar to the small drop shot par 3 that is behind the 2nd green at Tilden Park.

That's interesting, 

When did they add that hole and which one does it replace?  As i think about it, its been a long time since I've played Tilden...12+ years.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
The 10th at Sharp (pictured above) was the 9th hole back then.  Makes sense, since it returns to the clubhouse.  I can't remember what hole the short practice hole replaced.  It was rare to play it, and would only be in play if rain washed out some other hole (happened a few times in '82).

The hole at Tilden hasn't been in play for ages.  I think the last time it was used was when the 5th green and surrounds were being re-done (and horrificly re-done it was).  You walk by the extra hole as you walk from the second green to the third tee.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Holes 11 and 12 were two of my favorites.

HOLE 11 (original 1st), 405 yards, par 4:

This was my favorite tee shot on the course.  The hole is a slight dogleg right, and the trees are not a large obstacle.  They do frame the hole nicely, and one of Pacifica's huge sand dunes is visible in the background.  This was the first time I hit driver.



A good drive leaves a nice approach.



From my one viewing of the course, the 11th green is the one that would most benefit from a restoration to the original design.  The green has been rounded off and cut off from the front right bunker.



Perhaps Dr. Kiser is more familiar with the full extent of the green, but one would have to believe it once extended beyond its current dimensions in the back as well



HOLE 12 (original 2nd), 187 yards, par 3:

Hole 12 was easily my favorite par 3.  The aerial suggests that this hole once played as a par 4, but with the construction of the berm there is now only room for a stout par 3.  This hole also plays longer than the yardage as it plays directly into the ocean breeze.  Here, Dr. Kiser knocks a solid iron to the back of the green.



The green appears large from the tee, but is actually a small, crowned, hard-to-hit target.  The bunker no doubt once better protected the green.


« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 02:50:50 AM by JLahrman »

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Looks like the course is back in the news yet again today...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry_id=96961&tsp=1

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Holes 13, 14, and 15 skirt the lake.

HOLE 13 (original 9th), 532 yards, par 5:

Here we see Mr. Cahill's smooth follow-through.  The 13th bends left, with the marsh bordering the entire hole.



The approach, seen from about 200 yards out.



Another greensite that probably bears little resemblance to its original form.



HOLE 14 (original 10th), 365 yards, par 4:

This is one hole which is actually narrower than the picture would suggest.  The marsh is a definite threat on the left.  A long tee shot past the trees on the right is a bailout option, but leaves a poor angle into the green.  The trees are also big enough to knock down a wayward shot.  My tee shot caught one of the trees, and we never found the ball.



Oh dear, Mr. Kiser has done us the favor of demonstrating that the bunker 60 yards short of the green can still serve as a hazard.



Unlike many bunkers, this greenside trap can protect a hole location.



HOLE 15 (original 11th), 131 yards, par 3:

Here is a shot of the 15th tee.  The long reeds in the back right of the picture serve as a visual obstacle for the tee shot on this short hole.  I assume because of environmental considerations, they cannot be trimmed.  The result is that the player is faced with a wall of reeds when hitting his tee shot, and cannot see the flag (or anything else).  I'm a tree-hugger as far as this board goes, but it would be nice to find a way to see the green.  Three of our four shots wound up close to the hole though.  Maybe blind is the way to play the game.



Here is the only shot of the green that I took.  That bunker would love to be enlarged.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 07:54:20 PM by JLahrman »

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Some good stuff Joel.  Thanks for continuing to post on this.

Ya ... cart pathing is HORRIBLE in certain areas and it gets worse on the 16th / 17th unfortunately.

The 14th would have been one hell of a hole in the day.  The "Channel" hole equivalent as it were.  It's tough to make out the contours leading into the green being original or not, but short of the green left shows some serious contouring for deflecting shots.  An iffy approach from the island or fairway would get punished.

Today the island part is till there, but covered in ... trees.

I think the 15th is still pretty damn good and one of most recoverable holes.  Not much would need to be done to get this one back to playing like in the old days.

Thanks for the ubiquitous butt shot...  ;)

 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 02:51:33 PM by Patrick Kiser »
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
As one plays Sharp Park, one can hear the ocean and smell the ocean.  The player never actually sees the ocean though.  Hole 16 is the closest that we get to the Pacific.

Here we look across the 16th and 17th holes:



HOLE 16, 368 yards, par 4

The 16th has the sea berm off to the right.  The hole plays into a strong breeze.



Here is the approach from 150 yards out.  Given the wind, I tried to hit a low approach but the dip short of the green swallowed up the shot.



After holing out, it's possible to walk up a short slope and see the walking path, beach, and pier.

Looking south:



And north:



Behind the 17th tee, Dr. Kiser was able to point out the former 4th hole, with the features still visible among the scrub.



HOLE 17 (original 5th), 331 yards, par 4.

Unfortunately I didn't take a picture from the 17th tee.  The lake is on the right but shouldn't come into play.  The hole is downwind and short.  The bunkers 40 yards short of the green should make a long hitter think twice before trying to bash the ball up towards the green.


« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 02:12:12 PM by JLahrman »

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
HOLE 18 (original 12th), 489 yards, par 5

The 18th is a dogleg right that plays back to the clubhouse.  Given the road on the left side, those poor stragglers playing the adjacent 14th hole on the right are directly in my wheelhouse.



The approach, from about 180 yards out.  The road continues to border the hole although it does not pose much of a threat after the tee shot.



From there, we head up to the clubhouse.  Consistent with the course, it is stylish and classy but in need of a restoration!



Irrespective of the course's history, it's still a fun everyman's place to come for an affordable round on an interesting, attractive site.  Of course, GCA types will find it hard to walk the course without an eye for What Once Was.  But even in its current state, the course is fun to play and will hopefully survive the latest attempts to be 'restored'.

Gentlemen, that will do it for me for the BAGCAT, at least temporarily.  The wife is due with Baby Lahrman in a few weeks.  I should hopefully return for some winter golf - we've already had a few courses suggested.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 02:22:00 PM by JLahrman »

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Nice wrap up Joel.

Th 17th must have been a sweet risk/reward hole off the island tee in the lagoon.  Just bite off as much as you want to chew.

Good luck ahead with no.1 and we'll get something going again soon.

Best!
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks for the pics and commentary.  Sorry to have missed it.

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks for the pics and commentary.  Sorry to have missed it.


Alex,

That's ok.  We decided by default in your absence that you'll naturally organize the next BAGCAT.   ;)

No pressure or anything...
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Alex,

That's ok.  We decided by default in your absence that you'll naturally organize the next BAGCAT.   ;)

No pressure or anything...

Oh, it's a demanding job:

1) Pick a day and time that suits your schedule.
2) Send out cursory PMs for course suggestions, feigning a team approach.
3) Ignore the course suggestions, and select the course you had wanted to play all along.
4) Confirm that there are no tournaments scheduled at your selected course at the approved time.
5) Announce the outing via a thread and PMs.
6) Collect confirmations; harass holdouts
7) Make the tee times.

Voila, mini-outing.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 02:26:38 PM by JLahrman »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back