Broadening your horizons

[George Pazin]

I think members of this group disaparage architects and styles far too frequently without much of a base of knowledge upon which to make that judgement, and then don't disclose that their base is pretty flimsy. Others praise what they know in a comparative fashion without really stating that its the ONLY thing they really know.

Its not the decision not to play, its the way posters participate here after making that decision that creates the potential issue.

This is a very common criticism of the site, and one I disagree with entirely. I think it is far more common for a person to make criticisms of a specific course, and then others attempt to shout them down with "You haven't played enough of so and so to make those comments! What about this course? What about that course?" - when the comments were directed at a specific course or feature. That sort of trumping of positions is a far greater threat to the health of the site than anyone who may overgeneralize based on too few plays, imho. Those who overgeneralize do more than enough to discredit their own positions - speaking generally of course.

I think you wil find as your time becomes more restricted by other factors, you will understand my willingness to be more stingy in course selection. But you might not - there's plenty of posters on here who still revel in playing new tracks.

Long weekend sans golf for me starts tomorrow - have fun everyone, I enjoyed the debate.

[JNC Lyon]

A bunch of us made a special trip to play Dismal River (Nicklaus) this summer and didn't see Sand Hills (C & C).  Is that okay?

The "minimalist-as-cookie-cutter" argument does not resonate with me.  I have been lucky enough to see two Tom Doak courses: Ballyneal and Renaissance.  They could not be more different.  I have also seen two Gil Hanse originals: French Creek and Inniscrone.  They are also very different golf courses.  WHY?  Because minimalist golf courses are meant to follow the land as closely as possible.  They move as little dirt as possible and appear well in place with their surrounds.  Thus, a true minimalist architect will not have courses that look the same unless they are built on very similar pieces of property.  Renaissance and Ballyneal used completely different bunker styles, both of which fit the site but neither of which was forced into the site.  Dismal River II?  That is going to look much different from Dismal River I or Ballyneal.

These statements that minimalist courses are cookie-cutter are, well, cookie-cutter!

[Kalen Braley]

A bunch of us made a special trip to play Dismal River (Nicklaus) this summer and didn't see Sand Hills (C & C).  Is that okay?

I know a handful of GCA'ers who off the record would say you should be committed to the looney bin for such an offense! 

Not only is Sand Hills supposedly that good, (I haven't played it), but some of them would even make the claim that Sand Hills is better than Cypress. I can only postulate that if you went to Monterey, had an invite to play Cypress, and turned it down to play something else...then you would at least be consistent in your "normalcy!"   

[JNC Lyon]

I had no formal invite to play Sand Hills.  Of course, I do now and may play there next summer, but still, I planned out that Dismal River trip without intention to play Sand Hills.

What are you, ON DOPE?!

[Andy Troeger]

George,
Read any rating thread and you'll get numerous examples--such and such course is too low, too high, etc. Those are comparative comments, and I guarantee not everybody that makes them has played even one fourth of the courses that are actually being compared!  How many guys on the recent post-modern ranking exercise played 1/4 of the list but had 6 courses they played as being in the top ten. I probably even pushed the limit with my own selections.  

Just because you don't do this doesn't mean that its not common!

[Kalen Braley]

I had no formal invite to play Sand Hills.  Of course, I do now and may play there next summer, but still, I planned out that Dismal River trip without intention to play Sand Hills.

What are you, ON DOPE?!

JNC,

Its all good, I suspected that could be the case with Sand Hills.

P.S.  Its always fun when GCA.com gets like this!!  But that usually happens in the winter time when everyone is couped up.  Maybe its the record heat getting to everyone lately!! 

[Jud_T]

Andy:

Butler National- (2)
The Glen Club (4)
Conway Farms (4)
Desert @ Vintage Club (1)
Forest Creek N (1)
Forest Creek S (2)
Pinehurst #4 (2)
Pinehurst #8 (2)
Wynn Golf Club (2)
TPC Myrtle Beach (2)

Granted not many of his highest rated courses, but a representative sampling nevertheless and 4 more than my Doak total.

Are the numbers in brackets the # of times played, or Doak score?

Uh, Number of times played.  But the fact that you'd even consider they might be my Doak scores speaks volumes in and of itself...By the way my favorites of theses are TPC Myrtle Beach and Forest Creek North...