[Mike_Clayton]

Royal Queensland was an 18 hole, Alister MacKenzie influenced, course Corey Pavin once described as 'the best course I have ever played with a bridge over the top of it'
Players drove under the bridge (built in the middle 1980s) off the 12th tee and played five hole 'on the other side' before driving back under the bridge off the 17th tee.
Five years ago the local government commissioned a replication bridge to cope with the increased traffic and the whole course - essentially a new one -  was relocated to the clubhouse side of the bridge.

The club are now about to have the land on the other side of the bridges returned to their control.
The question is what to do with the land.

There is room for 9 holes out there - so my question is whether anybody knows of 27 hole courses with a satellite nine with a seperete clubhouse/starters hut or something in between?
All the 27 hole courses in Australia work around a single clubhouse - but that is not possible at RQ without alteration to the new course.

[D_Malley]

Philadelphia cricket has 45 holes with three separate starting points, all of which have their own parking and clubhouse.  In fact the main clubhouse is located at the nine hole course which is now mainly used by juniors and seniors.

[Scott Warren]

Mike,

At Le Touquet, the clubhouse is by the start and finish of the original La Foret course, while the La Mer course starts and finishes about a kilometre or more away with its own small gravel carpark and a starter's hut.

There's a cart path that runs through La Foret course to the 1st/18th of La Mer, and it's also accessible by road for players who want to bypass the clubhouse and drive straight to the 1st tee.

Of course this isn't exactly what you were after as La Mer is 18 holes, not nine.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Mike - This is quite a tough one without really knowing the full facts. I looked at google earth and its located too far away for people to happily walk there play nine and walk back in my opinion, a seperate car park and hut costs money to operate ofcourse and it seems to me to be more of a financial call rather than an architectural one. Perhaps - could the club buy say 12 buggies that were used soley for the purpose to taking golfers from the clubhouse to an area near what would be the 1st green/9th tee, with a buggy park, then the golfers can use a buggy to return from 9. I have seen a situation where a club built a new 9 that was a long way from the clubhouse and it has struglled to get players just because of the there and back walk.

[Kalen Braley]

After looking at the land in aerials, unless they've acquired some additional land...it doesn't look like they can fit 9 regulation holes on it. 

But it would seem it could easily acommadate 9 pitch-and-putt holes.  It'd be a great place for the kids and beginners to get their feet wet!

[Adrian_Stiff]

Kalen, you would get a shortish 9 in there okay or a great 6 holer. Is the land worth lots for building on? It may be that it just does not work moneywise for golf, though a great practice and add on for the club. Is the land pretty, looks pretty nasty with the bridge and buildings?

[Kalen Braley]

Adrian,

Its interesting if you look at the current routing out there....there are actually 20 holes on the property with 2 additional par 3s.  I wonder if those two holes are left over from the original routing and/or are alternates?

As for the land...its been 20 years since I've been there in person, but it looks like a bit of an industrial area has popped up in that neighborhood.  The bridge itself is pretty cool....minimalistic and slender looking.

[Scott_Burroughs]

TPC@Wakefield Plantation in Raleigh, NC (soon to lose its TPC status) has a separate 9 hole course (closer to Executive length) that operates out of the Sports Club clubhouse, about a mile from the main clubhouse.

[Mike_Clayton]

There are 20 holes on the new course.
They kept the second half of the old 2nd hole as a spare par 3. That is the one with the water on the left.
The other one at the opposite end of the course plays right up to the bridge after the par 3 4th hole. We built it early on so the members could keep 18 holes in play while the course was being rebuilt.
There is room for nine holes out there because the club also get the block of land to the north of the old holes.
There is decent road access out there from the clubhouse as well as an alternate entrance up by the 3rd green - the green closest to the bridge.

Thanks for the replies so far.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

Years ago, Coore and Crenshaw built a third nine holes within the grounds at Southern Hills in Oklahoma.  But, I've never heard anyone even mention it since it opened.

Most of the 27-hole courses I've seen are mediocre, or a mess.  It's hard to build a third nine that is equal quality with the rest, if the original 18 is very good.  Visitors and members and certainly raters just want to play the "best" 18 holes, whatever they are, so attempts to mix up the nines for the course of the day usually fail.

As Kalen and D_Malley suggested, what most clubs really need today is a place for beginners and kids to go out and get better and enjoy themselves without getting in the way of the members who want to play 18 holes.  Shinnecock built a crude par-3 course in front of the clubhouse a few years ago for that very purpose, and it seems to be reasonably well received at a low operating cost.

[Sam Morrow]

Mike:

Years ago, Coore and Crenshaw built a third nine holes within the grounds at Southern Hills in Oklahoma.  But, I've never heard anyone even mention it since it opened.

Most of the 27-hole courses I've seen are mediocre, or a mess.  It's hard to build a third nine that is equal quality with the rest, if the original 18 is very good.  Visitors and members and certainly raters just want to play the "best" 18 holes, whatever they are, so attempts to mix up the nines for the course of the day usually fail.

As Kalen and D_Malley suggested, what most clubs really need today is a place for beginners and kids to go out and get better and enjoy themselves without getting in the way of the members who want to play 18 holes.  Shinnecock built a crude par-3 course in front of the clubhouse a few years ago for that very purpose, and it seems to be reasonably well received at a low operating cost.

Tom,

 The third 9 at Southern Hills is okay, it's covered in tents during majors but not a bad 9 at all.

[Kevin Pallier]

Mike

Royal Pines is the only one that springs to mind in Australia with a fair drive from the main clubhouse to the other 9 holes. That and the fact that the driving range is also a fair distance from it as well.

Any chance for some onsite accommodation perhaps on the land ?

[Mike_Clayton]

Kevin.

I think Royal Pines used to be 36 - and they sold 9 for houses which may explain why there is the distance from the main clubhouse.

The RQ land is zoned for recreation so they cannot build accommodation out there unless the government change the zoning.

[James Bennett]

Mike

does the new course have returning nines?  I only played the old course, back in 1973.

James B

[Kevin Pallier]

Mike

The "Blue" 9 as they used to call it - always started where it currently stands. The "Gold" 9 was the one they removed - mind you I felt it had some of the better holes on the entire layout.

[Mike_Clayton]

James,

The new course has returning nines. The 1st goes backwards up the old 18th, the 9th comes down the old 2nd and 1st, 10 is the old 10th and 18 plays from the old 9th tee to a green near the old 18th green.
You would not recognise the course.

Kevin,

 Was that the half with the interesting undulation?

[Kevin Pallier]

Mike

I think the 9 Gold holes had more movement in it than the other 27 holes combined.

[Jason Topp]

Micheal:

Here are a few:

Highland National - St. Paul, MN - shorter par 34 or 35 additional 9.  Works great for beginners and fathers of young children seeking to sneak in 9 holes before the kids wake up.

http://www.bing.com/maps/Default.aspx?encType=1&v=2&ss=ypid.YN447x8142427&style=r&mkt=en-us&FORM=LLDP

(click on Bird's Eye for an angled aerial photo view)

Fox Hollow - St. Micheal, MN - additional 9 hole reversible 9.  I really dislike the reversible 9

http://www.bing.com/maps/Default.aspx?encType=1&v=2&ss=ypid.YN447x8142427&style=r&mkt=en-us&FORM=LLDP#JnE9LmZveCUyYmhvbGxvdyUyYmdvbGYlN2Vzc3QuMCU3ZXBnLjEmYmI9NDQuOTI4MDY2ODg0MDkxMSU3ZS05My4xMzkwNjQzMTE5ODEyJTdlNDQuODk2OTAyMjA1MzAwMyU3ZS05My4xNzg3NjEwMDU0MDE2

New Richmond Golf Club - additional 9 hole reversible 9
- never played the 9 hole course

http://www.bing.com/maps/Default.aspx?encType=1&v=2&ss=ypid.YN948x16240239&style=r&mkt=en-us&FORM=LLDP


All of these courses have separate small clubhouses at the additional 9.  On each, the additional 9 is very different from the original course but I do not see that as a drawback.

[Matthew Mollica]

Does the Par 3 nine holer at Pebble Beach count?

That's a buggy ride from the clubhouse and first tee of the course proper, as is the driving range.

And I suspect some would prefer 9 holes with the wedge and putter before their round over the full size range.

MM

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