Bryan,
Great photos, thanks.
I first traipsed the fairways at Prestwick in 1952 and NGLA about a dozen years later.
While I've been back to play Prestwick, I've played NGLA, exponentially more times and thus am more familiar with it..
#17 at Prestwick is a wonderful hole, a great hole, but, I think that the 35 additional yards and the more dramatic topography give NGLA the nod. No doubt, Prestwick is the original, but, I think NGLA is the superior hole.
I realize that's a subjective perspective and that you may feel otherwise, but, I have to ask, have you played both holes ?
David,
You have to remember that Mike Cirba argued, vehemently, that the 11th at LACC North was a genuine Redan, thus it seems he was willing to accept, if not expand his interpretation of templates from pure physical resemblance to a conceptual acknowledgement.
Yet, he rejects that notion, the conceptual acknowledgement with respect to Merion's 10th.
That's a double standard and He can't have it both ways, try as he may..
If the 11th at LACC North fits his definition of a Redan, than so does the 3rd at Merion, especially when contemporaneous accounts from knowledgeable people characterized it as a Redan.
Similarly, contemporaneous accounts from knowledgeable people characterized # 10 at Merion as an Alps.
If one is going to champion the "conceptual" characterization at other clubs/holes, the same standard, the same "conceptual" characterization has to apply to Merion. For him to argue otherwise would be ....... disengenuous
But, I'd really like to get back to Pine Valley and the topos.
Paul Turner,
I may have stated that the topo/survey which was the basis for the stick routing and the Blue/Red routing was performed in April, 2013, when it was drawn up in March, 1913. Off the top of my head I had forgotten which month it was created.
If the stick routing was superimposed on the topo circa March 1913, then we know it had to be done on or subsequent to March 1903. The question remains, WHEN was the stick routing superimposed on the March 1913 Topo ?
The issue of multiple writings/authors is an interesting one.
Perhaps, establishing the date it was crafted will help determine who was or wasn't involved in its creation.
1898 USGS Topo
1913 March Topo
____ Stick Routing ?
Another related issue is, If Colt was summoned by Crump, and paid for his services, did Crump include a topo with his request/invitation, either the 03-1913 topo or an earlier version, assuming the contact was a written contact.