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Melvyn Morrow

How would Course Designers…….
« on: July 27, 2011, 08:49:55 AM »

Given a free hand, design courses to curtail the effect of the long drives. In other words how to recapture the initiative.

The game as played by the top players has become a ‘Drive and Putt’ game with very little interest until the ball is Green side. Clearly little is being ACTUALLY done by our Governing Bodies, so if able, how would you go about combating the long hitters. Oh yes as a side question do you as a designer see the merits of trying to minimise the effect of the long hitters?

Unless the wind is up (blowing rather firmly) in say places like TOC, we then see more of the ground game being forced upon players, which I feel adds much to the game for both the golfer and spectators alike. 

In fact can designers overcome this, that is, if allowed too with financial backup from course owners. Or do you feel that it’s down to The Governing Bodies?

Melvyn

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Ian Andrew

Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 12:06:27 PM »
Do you as a designer see the merits of trying to minimise the effect of the long hitters?


I think its time we stop designing for the 1% of players who never pay to play.

I'm fine with intelligent length - but who are 7000+ yard tees really for?
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 05:08:27 PM »


Thank Ian, totally agree with you.

Any suggestions how to go about the design aspect of bringing the aerial game back into line - I do not believe it is beyond the ability of designers to combat these long drives.

Melvyn
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 05:11:31 PM »
Limiting length off the tee is an easy fix.   ;D

Just grow the fairway grass to 6 inches from 250 - 350 yards off the tee on every par 4 and par 5.   ::)  ::)
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 05:15:26 PM »

kalen

Without spoiling the game or the course for the vast majority.

Melvyn
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 05:33:24 PM »
Melvyn:

Pete Dye had an idea years ago where the fairway was offset so that the further you drove the ball, the worse an angle of approach you had for the second shot.  But, of course, players could back off and hit irons off the tee if they wanted, which is kind of defeating the purpose.

Personally, what I've observed is that the shorter courses are the ones which make the big hitters think.  Making a course 7000 yards or even 7500 yards does not really make it long for the pro of today ... it just makes it very long for everyone else. 
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Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 05:40:09 PM »
If I were able to drive the ball 300 yards, then that's what I would do with conviction. And if someone were to build a course, where I could not play to my strength, then I would discount that course and play elsewhere. I certainly would not tee off with an iron on every hole just because some clever golf architect felt the need to restrict me.

In other words: you can build a course like that for the vast majority of players and really spoil it for the top 1%. It can be a good course, but it will never be a great one. If the top 1% of golfers hate it, how can it be great? If the US Open trophy goes to a golfer without a wood in his bag, but 6 wedges and 2 putters, then that golfer's game was not thoroughly tested.

The only way is to roll back the ball for Pros and let Amateurs continue as they are today.

Ulrich
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Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Don_Mahaffey

Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 05:44:08 PM »
Melvyn,
IMO, the approach is exactly opposite conventional wisdom.

First, get the turf as fast as possible.

Second, try and leave the ground irregular, small bumps, wrinkles, hollows, irregularity is good, anything that brings some uncertainty into how your ball will react.

Third, add a little cant, along with some minor bending of the holes. It does not have to be sharp or always at 320 off the tee, just something that shrinks the target a bit for the bomber but adds interest for the recreational player.

Fourth, and a huge key, grow no rough, all short fast turf. Nothing to stop a wayward drive or bad bounce from running into the real kaka. No bogey rough, get rid of the bomb and gouge play, set it up so a ball will run right up to the edge of the playing corridor, and who knows where that will leave you. Probably sometimes not so good, other times you’ll be lucky to have any shot at all. Rough ringing the short grass on golf courses saves the bomber; it acts like a big net that contains his ball.

Combine all that with firm greens, and you will be able to cater to every type of golfer.
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 05:44:45 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on July 27, 2011, 05:11:31 PM
Limiting length off the tee is an easy fix.   ;D

Just grow the fairway grass to 6 inches from 250 - 350 yards off the tee on every par 4 and par 5.   ::)  ::)

DUDE!!! When I saw Melvyn's question I immediately thought of your 180 degree "dogleg" hole. The longer you drive it, the longer you approach would have to be. DUDE!!!!!!!!!!
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Melvyn Morrow

Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 06:00:14 PM »

Some can drive speedboats very fast or cars but the fun is in controlling the skill. Anyone can drive a car fast in a straight line but it’s as boring or frustrating as a fart in a space suite.
Using skill and controlling it is far more spectator friendly, so you can drive a long ball but can you down that long putt on the Green – looking at some of the majors there is a skill loss there for many.

Thanks Tom for your input and I do believe that 6,800 will be the norm (in a few years) if we get the governing bodies to act. My old comfort zone was 36 Holes in a day, it’s was good fun, helped me understand the course second time round, gave me the exercise I needed to detox my system of work stress and of course was music to my pocket in the cost of a day’s play.

I do not understand those who like the longer courses it restricts the game and generally just too long for a good 36 Holes. I still feel hazards placed in the LZ areas will as you said force more thinking which I believe is certainly needed these days on our courses. Maybe it’s by Single Malt blood but I do love stone walls across a course perhaps a couple 275 and 3250 yards out  would test ones resolve.

The answer is I believe more hazards, selected and placed for the long hitters but that which will not come into play for the average golfer.

Tom, yes I think you have a good point in that word ‘THINK’ and perhaps they need to run into a brick wall to make them think.

Melvyn 

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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How would Course Designers…….
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 07:54:20 PM »
Don't forget you have to ignore their rantings when they are made to look human (foolish) after their ball bounces and rolls to a random conclusion.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle
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