[Dale_McCallon]

Billy Casper famously laid up 4 straight rounds at Winged Foot in a US Open (59?).  Have any of you guys ever used this strategy, or with the advent of technology/hybrids made this a moot point?

I know some long par 3s have bailout areas, but how often have you actually tried to use them...deliberately?

[Gary Slatter]

On the 16th at Carnoustie I found that if I tried to lay up off the front of the green, I usually made par.

[Will Peterson]

On #7 at Bergamont in Madison, WI, when playing the back two boxes (255 and 230) I will always hit for the bailout area short right to take the water out of play.  The only time I would end up on the green is when I hooked/pulled the shot.  The fairway slopes towards the green and the ball will usually end up in a small collection area next to the green.  Some pins will leave a difficult chip, but most of the time its a pretty straight forward up and down.  You make a lot of 3s and 4s, but never any 5s. 

[Ronald Montesano]

KLynch and I go back and forth on this one...I hate the big number and take the BC/David Toms approach all the time...I will lay up 10 times out of 4 to avoid the big number...I have no interest in glory, especially when the alternative is doom. However...

I have played 250-yard par threes (Whistling Straits, Tullymoore) and bashed driver...why? 'Cause I knew it was the right club at the right time, and I had the swing that day.

[Scott Warren]

From Ran's review of the Country Club of Charleston:

Eleventh hole, 185 yards, Redan; One of the most feared holes in the southeast, this hole has intimidated many of the country’s best amateurs to lay up during the Azalea Invitational. Lay up you say? On a 185 yard hole with no water?? How can that be??? Simply put, this green is a shelf with an eleven foot deep bunker on the right and a seven foot bunker on the left. The bunker edges are right up against the edge of the green which narrows to just eight paces wide at the back. Their fear, as is yours, is that you become involved in volleyball as your bunker shots fly merrily from one bunker across the green to the other, and so on and so on.

[Brock Peyer]

There was a hole at The Cape in Wilmington, NC (not Cape Fear), that was 220ish with a pond in front of the tee, then then a 40 yard long strip of land about a 110 or so from the green and then another pond from there to fronting the green with OB on the left.  My college roommate who played for UNCW routinely laid up on that hole and made 3's and 4's on it and he was one of the purest swingers I have known.  This was 18 years ago and equipment was so different then but I used to give him a terrible time about it.  I forget the name of the course now.

[Carl Johnson]

Depends on the situation in match play (which is the only game I play).  I'll lay up any time I think it is to my advantage in match play, par 3, 4 or 5.  I've been cussed out by opponents for doing so, but then when I've gone on to win the hole . . . no problem for me.

[Joel_Stewart]

16th at Cypress Point has to be the par 3 with more layups than any other.  There is a very high percentage of people and members who can't carry the tee shot that far.

I've seen some people lay up on the 3rd at Olympic Club.

[Brent Hutto]

With no breeze whatsoever I could probably talk myself into waling away with a driver on CPC #16. The day I played there it was about a club and a half wind hurting and from the right. No way to make the carry. Laid up dead sideways (over past the tree) with a lofted fairway wood, hit a knockdown 6-iron to about eight feet.

The caddie told me to aim at the right edge of the cup and "keep the speed up". I aimed it there, hit it kind of soft and lipped out on the left side. He said "You didn't keep the speed up" in a tone that let me know I had very much disappointed him...

[Chris DeNigris]

Number 2 at Dornoch.

I did it unintentionally the first time I played it with a mis-hit...short front is a really good place to be there.

[Brent Hutto]

Chris is absolutely right about Dornoch #2. Five yards short of that green is better than any alternative not on the green. And depending on where the hole is, better than some spots on the green.

Short of the green is not the spot to lay up on Dornoch #10, however. Neither is any other place.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The 4th hole at Mountain Ridge is a spectacular uphill par 3 with an incredible green that has two sets of perpendicular spines toward the front (4 o'clock and 8 o'clock) and back of the green (2 o'clock and 10 o'clock) with one spine running from the mid point in the back of the green at 12 o'clock, down toward the center of the green.

If the hole is cut from the middle of the green to any point forward, I hit a 2-iron from the blue tee (205) which will get me on the front of the green or most likely, short of the green on the upslope.  From that position I can usually two putt for a par.

Missing the green right or left leaves one with a very, very difficult up and down.
Likewise, going long.

Hence, just short of the green, from five yards to the fringe, is an excellent position from which to play your second shot.

I've seen good golfers double bogey the hole, especially when the greens are firm and fast, by missing the green, making a recovery to the green, then three putting.

Putting uphill from directly in front of the green, insures par or bogey at worse, on a very difficult hole.

Course management is critical and in great demand on this hole.

[Ronald Montesano]

#11...Cherry Hill Club...Ridgeway, Ontario...Walter J. Travis (with some help from Ian Andrew)...local lore is that Lee of Trevino called it the toughest of the tough and laid up there during the 1982 Canadian PGA (don't smirk...Ray Floyd, Trevino, Jim Thorpe-winner and others played the CPGA that year!) Hole is only about 190 but has a skull shape, with eyes raised eight feet above jaw, with bunkers for cheeks.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Huckaby lays up on the 16th at Cypress all the time....

In case you weren't sitting with the Huckster and Moriarity during one of the early King's putter, you missed an hour long dialog about the definition of golf as it related to the layup at cypress.

Frankly I was the only one crazy enough to listen to them, so y'all certainly weren't there...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Huckaby lays up on the 16th at Cypress all the time....

In case you weren't sitting with the Huckster and Moriarity during one of the early King's putter, you missed an hour long dialog about the definition of golf as it related to the layup at cypress.

Frankly I was the only one crazy enough to listen to them, so y'all certainly weren't there...

Mike,

The first time I ever played that hole, I had a good round going and a bet with a good friend that revolved around my individual and cumulatieve scores at PBGC, CPC and Spyglass.

I could have insured winning the bets by laying up to the left, in fact, the caddy suggested same.
The wind was in our face, the ocean spray from the rocks hitting us with regularity.
I had just bought a new driver a few days earlier and told the caddy that I didn't travel 3,000 miles to play CPC to lay up on the 16th hole.

I hit the driver, dead solid perfect, and low, boring through the wind and surf spray and ending up on the green.
I was so excited by that shot that after the round I went back to the hotel, got my girlfriend and brought her back to the spot to see the shot I had hit.
I also called the person who had arranged my round, to tell them what a great time I had that day and about the shot I hit on # 16, and the bomber drive I hit on # 17 as a result of being so pumped up with excitement.  I raved about the course and the fantastic experience of playing it.

When I returned to the room that night after dinner, the red message light was blinking on my phone.
When I returned the call, the person who had arranged for me to play that day said, "so, you really enjoyed CPC today"
I said, "it was spectacular and again, I can't thank you enough for arranging this for me.
They said, "so you really enjoyed playing there"  I said, Yeah, it was nothing short of spectacular."  To which they said, "Well, I'm glad you loved the experience because you have an 8:00 am tee off there tomorrow morning"
I immediately cancelled my regularly scheduled agenda as I wasn't going to miss CPC.

P.S.  No way Marion Hollins hit that green from 223 

[Kevin Lynch]

KLynch and I go back and forth on this one...I hate the big number and take the BC/David Toms approach all the time...I will lay up 10 times out of 4 to avoid the big number...I have no interest in glory, especially when the alternative is doom. However...

I have played 250-yard par threes (Whistling Straits, Tullymoore) and bashed driver...why? 'Cause I knew it was the right club at the right time, and I had the swing that day.

Completely depends on the situation.  Am I playing in a stroke play tournament?  Match Play with a lead or trailing?  Generally, I don’t have the fear of the big number, unless I’m playing in a situation which demands it (this doesn’t apply to most of my casual rounds).

More important to me is whether it is a course I’ll play frequently or once every several years.  If it’s the former, I may be more tempted to play conservatively (but only a little bit).  If it’s the latter, I’m taking the chance and don’t care about a big number.  To me, taking a bogey at Cypress’ 16th by laying up will last about as long in my memory as taking a double or worse by going for it.  If I’m only going to have one chance at a course, I’ll always try to create the longer lasting memory.

Having said that, the closer at my home course is a 220 Par 3, with OB right, and sure bogey long or left.  The club I pull will never be big enough to go long and will just make the front half of the green if I strike it perfectly.  8 out of 10 swings will be followed by the utterance, “not perfect, but I can get up and down from there.”

[David_Tepper]

I regularly lay up on #2 at Dornoch. There is a small hollow short and left of the #6 green at Dornoch that is not a bad place to be either. 

[Trevor]

At The Apawamis Club, in Rye, NY, the former head professional (and course record holder) Jacques Patroni never attacked the 16th hole (one-shotter).  Many still advise the best way to make par is leaving it short of this green...and cite Jacques name and strategy as justification.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Thank you for sharing Pat
I can still vividly recall every moment that led up to my shot at 16 - and how pure my strike into the wind - and it landed 8' left of the hole - and walking to the green with only my putter.

I was joking about Huckaby - he never lays up.

What would you have done if you were a member in that game?

[Duncan Cheslett]

At Reddish Vale we have a 240 yard par 3 with a green protected to both sides by bunkers and one side by water. The front however, is open and the sensible but boring tactic is to lay up 20 yards short and hope for a three.

This shot is known locally as the 'tit-feeler', as it opens up the hole...

[Kevin Pallier]

If I was playing Cypress Point in a medal and had a good round going - I'd probably lay-up.

For a once in a life-time round - have a go.

I regularly layup on a mid-length P3 at my home club in Wollongong. Narrow green and deep bunkers on both sides. More chance at a par from the front than one from in the sand.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Philadelphia Cricket's Wissahickon course features a long 15th hole, with OOB tight against the right side of the hole.  (IIRC) We played it at about 210-220 yds (please correct me if I'm wrong), I can vividly recall Powell telling us players have taken as little as 7 iron in order to stay in play.  It may be a little close for comfort. 

That didn't faze Harris, who hit it to about 12-15 feet left of the pin. 

That round was probably the golf highlight of my 2010 season.  I hope to go back. 

I believe the original tee oriented the player to approach the green as such that OOB was not as close to the line of play, but may affect an extremely poorly hit shot. 

It's a great hole at that point in the round.  Cricket really tightens the screws as you play the final holes on the golf course.   

[Anthony Gray]

  I've done this many times unintended.

  Anthony

[mike_malone]

 When I first joined Rolling Green I asked the pro how to play #14 ( one of JNC Lyons uphill 18). He said " play it short". There is some sense to this because it is 190-200 yards uphill to an angled and long green with bunkers right and left and a 40 foot drop off to the right. If there is a red flag you would be much better short than in the back of the green.

[JMEvensky]

P.S.  No way Marion Hollins hit that green from 223  [/b][/size][/color]

Pat, have you ever seen pictures of that woman's golf swing?  I have She had extension like Davis Love in his 20s.  I don't doubt for one second she pounded the crap out of the ball...

This argument was more fun when the late,great TEP was playing.

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