[Brad LeClair]

The 8 Top 100 Course Newcomers:

1. Old Mac (#43 US/#74 World)
2. Gozzer Ranch (#70 US)
3. The Alotian (#76 US)
4. Caves Valley (#82 US)
5. California Golf Club of San Francisco (#97 US)
6. Castle Stuart (#56 World)
7. Diamante (Dunes) (#58 World)
8. Barnbougle Lost Farm (#82 World)

Link to mag with pics found at: http://www.golf.com/golf/gallery/article/0,28242,2084978-7,00.html

discuss freely

[hhuffines]

I'm not a subscriber... is the new issue with ratings out yet?  Thanks!

[Sean Leary]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

[Kalen Braley]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

You can fly into Spokane airport and be less than an hour away from Gozzer. RCCC though is 4 hours from the airport.....and even at that distance, Spokane is still the closest major airport.

But no doubt, its more than worth the drive in my opinion.

[Greg Tallman]

Rather surprised to see Castle Stuart that high or even on the list given the comments from a number of panelists I have chatted with.

Also surprised to see Old Mac that low... only heard one real detractor from about 40 who had played it.

NOTE to anyone who wants to have a highly rated golf course... find a linksy site and a PR machine.

Oh yeah, this fellow named Doak or Coore might be a good idea as well.

[Ryan Farrow]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

You can fly into Spokane airport and be less than an hour away from Gozzer. RCCC though is 4 hours from the airport.....and even at that distance, Spokane is still the closest major airport.

But no doubt, its more than worth the drive in my opinion.

Kalen, I thought Rock Creek was 1-1.5 hours from Missoula? Where is this 4 coming from?

[Anthony Gray]

  Glad to see Diamante. Beauty with just the right amount of quirk.

  Anthony

[Greg Tallman]

  Glad to see Diamante. Beauty with just the right amount of quirk.

  Anthony

You should be on one of the panels Anthony

[Greg Tallman]

Why is this not on their website?

Because the print versions are not out yet. Won't go up until probably mid September or so. They still try to sell the paper version.

[John Kavanaugh]

Why is this not on their website?

Let us not forget as Jim Colton posted on another thread:

"If you want to pay $2.99 for Golf Magazine's Front9 app, you can see the 8 courses that are new to their top 100 lists. It's odd that they want to make you pay to see the list, but from there you can openly share the direct link freely to the masses through Facebook, email, twitter, etc."

I am as guilty as anyone, except the OP, as I knew exactly what stolen information I would be viewing when I clicked on this thread.

[Greg Tallman]

John, If I pay for information is it not then mine to disseminate as I see fit? Not that I did.

[Garland Bayley]

John, If I pay for information is it not then mine to disseminate as I see fit? Not that I did.

NO!
There are copyright laws. You did not buy the copyright.

[George Freeman]

What's the story on Caves Valley?

I've never heard of it.

[SL_Solow]

George;  A Fazio of similar vintage and style to Conway Farms located outside of Baltimore.  Has hosted a number of USGA events I believe.  Its a very nice golf course; whether it belongs in this company is a nice question.

[Jim Colton]

Why is this not on their website?

Let us not forget as Jim Colton posted on another thread:

"If you want to pay $2.99 for Golf Magazine's Front9 app, you can see the 8 courses that are new to their top 100 lists. It's odd that they want to make you pay to see the list, but from there you can openly share the direct link freely to the masses through Facebook, email, twitter, etc."

I am as guilty as anyone, except the OP, as I knew exactly what stolen information I would be viewing when I clicked on this thread.

John,

 It was a foregone conclusion that somebody would post the list, but as far as I can tell, once you buy the app they want you to share it via the normal social media channels.

[Brad LeClair]

Jim:  agreed. given that its just a gallery of newcomers and there are links to share via email, facebook, twitter, digg and google i thought it 100% safe to share it as they SUGGESTED!  i trust this issue is settled 

[Kalen Braley]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

You can fly into Spokane airport and be less than an hour away from Gozzer. RCCC though is 4 hours from the airport.....and even at that distance, Spokane is still the closest major airport.

But no doubt, its more than worth the drive in my opinion.

Kalen, I thought Rock Creek was 1-1.5 hours from Missoula? Where is this 4 coming from?

Ryan,

You are correct but Missoula is only a regional airport.  You can fly into it for a reasonable price from Seattle or Portland, but coming from anywhere else, it usuallly means a layover in a major airport followed by a trip on a smaller plane that often nearly doubles the price of the trip.

For example, I went to Yahoo Travel and scoped out a trip from LAX to Spokane Int'l.  Depart on a Friday, return on a Sunday.  I was able to find a roundtrip ticket for $360 on dates about a month in advance.

Book that same trip from Lax to Missoula and that round trip is now nearly $600.... Nearly 75% more expensive. Those regional flights are super expensive because the flights are small with few passengers, but fuel costs are still high.

So when you have raters, flying on thier own coin, its now a lot more expensive just to get to that one golf course.  As opposed to flying in to Spokane where they can potentially play Gozzer Ranch, Black Rock, Idaho Club, Palouse Ridge, Circling Raven, and the Resort at CDA which are all 1 hour or less from the airport. (And perhaps they even take in Wine Valley, 2.5 hrs away)

[Sean Leary]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

You can fly into Spokane airport and be less than an hour away from Gozzer. RCCC though is 4 hours from the airport.....and even at that distance, Spokane is still the closest major airport.

But no doubt, its more than worth the drive in my opinion.

Forgot what a thriving metropolis Spokane is.

I agree that is easier from Spokane and perhaps those raters are more likely to go to CDA as they can play Black Rock as well. It just seems like RCCC has gotten more buzz in general than Gozzer has, even outside of the GCA circle.

[John Kavanaugh]

Jim:  agreed. given that its just a gallery of newcomers and there are links to share via email, facebook, twitter, digg and google i thought it 100% safe to share it as they SUGGESTED!  i trust this issue is settled  

The kosher way of sharing information is to provide a link as I found being done on twitter.  That way the magazine gets a taste with hits to their site and such.  Oh and we are treated to pictures.   http://www.golf.com/golf/gallery/article/0,28242,2084978-7,00.html

[Emile Bonfiglio]

I took the tour of Diamante in December and was very impressed. I did not like the way the sales team handled our desire to play the course prior to buying. My parent were seriously considering buying but they would not let us play the course unless we signed the deal. If I remember correctly, Members still have to pay $200 plus a round once owners. We ended up walking away, left to play the Palmilla Mountain/Ocean course instead.

[Carl Nichols]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

You can fly into Spokane airport and be less than an hour away from Gozzer. RCCC though is 4 hours from the airport.....and even at that distance, Spokane is still the closest major airport.

But no doubt, its more than worth the drive in my opinion.

Kalen, I thought Rock Creek was 1-1.5 hours from Missoula? Where is this 4 coming from?

Ryan,

You are correct but Missoula is only a regional airport.  You can fly into it for a reasonable price from Seattle or Portland, but coming from anywhere else, it usuallly means a layover in a major airport followed by a trip on a smaller plane that often nearly doubles the price of the trip.

For example, I went to Yahoo Travel and scoped out a trip from LAX to Spokane Int'l.  Depart on a Friday, return on a Sunday.  I was able to find a roundtrip ticket for $360 on dates about a month in advance.

Book that same trip from Lax to Missoula and that round trip is now nearly $600.... Nearly 75% more expensive. Those regional flights are super expensive because the flights are small with few passengers, but fuel costs are still high.

So when you have raters, flying on thier own coin, its now a lot more expensive just to get to that one golf course.  As opposed to flying in to Spokane where they can potentially play Gozzer Ranch, Black Rock, Idaho Club, Palouse Ridge, Circling Raven, and the Resort at CDA which are all 1 hour or less from the airport. (And perhaps they even take in Wine Valley, 2.5 hrs away)

Kalen:
I think the difference in flights is only significant from the West Coast.  From the East Coast and Chicago, I don't think you can get a direct flight to either city. 

[JC Jones]

Jim:  agreed. given that its just a gallery of newcomers and there are links to share via email, facebook, twitter, digg and google i thought it 100% safe to share it as they SUGGESTED!  i trust this issue is settled  

The kosher way of sharing information is to provide a link as I found being done on twitter.  That way the magazine gets a taste with hits to their site and such.  Oh and we are treated to pictures.   http://www.golf.com/golf/gallery/article/0,28242,2084978-7,00.html

John,

Those links must be All Beef to be Kosher.

[Peter Pallotta]

If I didn't know better (i.e. of John's love for all things ranking) I'd swear that he was trying to wreck the interminable flow of all these ranking threads...5 or 6 of them right up at the top of the first page. But I appreciate his efforts any way, since they save me from starting an Off Topic thread (perhaps about the lack of Off Topic threads, and how this differs from gca.com's good old days); or maybe a purely theoretical thread (perhaps about the Nature of Quality in a Fallen World, so as to remind people of those same good old days).  The trouble is, so many of my favourite posters seem to love this ranking business, and so I have had to assume the problem is with me. I wonder how many problems I have, and how I should rank them in order of importance...

Peter

[Kalen Braley]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

You can fly into Spokane airport and be less than an hour away from Gozzer. RCCC though is 4 hours from the airport.....and even at that distance, Spokane is still the closest major airport.

But no doubt, its more than worth the drive in my opinion.

Forgot what a thriving metropolis Spokane is.

I agree that is easier from Spokane and perhaps those raters are more likely to go to CDA as they can play Black Rock as well. It just seems like RCCC has gotten more buzz in general than Gozzer has, even outside of the GCA circle.

Lol...it is indeed a metropolis-mini-me.

But you hit on a good point of why life is good in Spokane.  Its big enough to have a major airport and all the current trappings of "modern" life.

But small enough to not suffer from over-crowding, congested highways, etc.  You can be anywhere in the city and only be a 10 minute drive from getting away from it all!!  

[J Sadowsky]

Surprised Gozzer got enough panelists but Rock Creek didn't...Caves Valley doesn't get talked about much on here so I guess that is a bit a surprise.

Caves Valley is a very nice Fazio track.  It doesn't get talked a lot on here for a variety of reasons:

1) It's a Fazio track in typical Tom Fazio aspect; I know Fazio does not have a lot of fans on this website.  For instance, check the bunkering in this photo:



2) It's in Baltimore - I don't think we have a large Baltimore contingency, and those that do play there tend to prefer BCC (for good reason).

3) It was built in 1991, right before the minimalist era, and thus incorporates neither Golden Age styles nor the new minimalist styles.

I think CV is one of the better designs of its era, but it's also representative of its era, and I don't think it is an era there's a lot of interest in on this site.

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