The Prairie Club (Pines) - Graham Marsh, A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 9: Par 4, 314 Yards

A short 4 with one of the most demanding greens you will find anywhere.

The hole plays under 300 yards from all sets of tees but the blacks but the decision from the tee will be dictated by wind direction.  Downhill and downwind the green is reachable by just about everyone.  Playing into the wind, driver or 3W is required just to leave a short-iron into the green - and believe me, you don't want to be hitting more than short iron into this green.

There are bunkers left and right off the tee, but most are unreachable into the wind (and are easily carry-able downwind).  There is also tons of fairway right as 9 shares a fairway with the parallel 8th.







Approach from 125




Approach from 75




This hole is all about the green.  Very shallow and very wide, you really have to get your distance right.  Straight downwind or into the wind, getting the distance right is no easy task.

Pins on the left half of the green have to contend with a massive false front.  They also have to deal with a green that runs sharply away once over the false front.  I bet only a small percentage of players actually hit the green in regulation, even with a wedge in their hands.  Shots that go just a little long will be caught by a deep collection area.  From there the recovery is all but impossible as shots short will roll back to the player's feet and shots long will roll off the front of the green via the false front.

Right pins have a whole different set of difficulties.  The green is much deeper here, but the penalty for missing the green is arguably greater.  The front-right bunker is very, very deep.  Worse, the area over the green on the right is death. Shots just a couple of yards long will tumble 30+ yards over the green into a deep collection area with random mounding to make recovery shots impossible.

I understand that this is a short par 4 with the green as the defense, but I have to wonder if the architects went a bit too far with this one given the windy conditions at TPC.


The false front





From left





From right

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 10: Par 3, 174 Yards

This straightforward P3 sets the tone for a less interesting homeward 9.  Playing downhill to a smallish green (by TPC standards), there isn't a whole lot happening here.  

There is green to the left of the mound and left of that is a run-off, but it is covered in rough(!).  This was a first at TPC and will stop balls from getting too far off-line.  The next few holes (as well as 16-17) have a distinctively parkland feel (hence "Pines") and I guess the rough adds to this.





The green is difficult.  Right pins have to deal with a ridge the bisects the green down the middle as well as two large swales.  Left pins are on a very flat piece of green.

[Michael Dugger]

I suspect this comment is going to both surprise and upset some people around here...

But the more I look at these pictures, I'm suffering from bunker overload.    Moreover, I appreciate Jeff Bradley more and more!!!

There are just a million of them on both of these courses.  And the shapes are not always good.

A couple of the more recent images of the Pines course especially.  I see where grass plantings were put in some of the bunkers to provide contrast, but they look like polka dots.

With so much movement in the natural land forms, I question if this much bunkering was necessary to provide the golf course with ample strategy.  It seems like eye candy to me.

[Ron Farris]

Michael, I have been taking pictures of natural sand bunkers in the Sand Hills for over 25 years.  I would agree with you on the poka dot look.  There does seem to be a bit of overkill when viewing the photos, but the place is different while playing, I trust.

[Mark Saltzman]

Michael,

Re the polka dot bunkers: they really do look funny (/bad) in the pictures.  I actually didn't notice then when I was playing the course, but now they are very obvious.  I bet I would notice them now that you have pointed it out, but when playing the course they are not obvious.

Re the number of bunkers: I think a lot of the reason for the number of bunkers is the presence of wind and the fact that there is no obvious prevailing wind (at least according to the pro I asked there and a couple of members).  Both days I played in the afternoon the wind was very strong - like steady 2-club wind, with gusts to 3 or 4.  And it switched the two days and it switched for about 4 hours in the late morning the first day.  I presume it is very difficult to design a golf course with this type of wind.  That is why I think there is such a need for the bunkers.  For one wind direction about half of the bunkers are not in play, but they are for another.  I actually thought this was better done on the Dunes but it is still obvious on the Pines (like the centerline bunkers on 2).  Without wind, there is such tremendous width, especially on the Dunes, that the flanking bunkers will actually seem stupid.  When a fairway is 100 yards wide, there is no way anyone will ever find the bunkers left or right, but with a 3-club crosswind they are in play.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 11: Par 5, 602 Yards

Someone wrote on another thread that they heard a course was boring so they were probably going to like it.  Well that person will like this hole as well.

The tee shot is blind and there is a bunker (or two?) down the left.  The fairway is flanked by tall trees (pines?), but overall there isn't much happening on the tee shot.




The second is best from the left, but from anywhere in the fairway you can lay-up to a good spot.  The trees on the left are farther than they look and you can get the ball to about 100 yards out by aiming just left of where the treeline ends.




The green is split into three section with putts within each section being fairly flat but putts from one section to another being very difficult.






Hole 12: Par 4, 461 Yards

So I have no idea what happened to my pictures of 12.  This might be the narrowest tee shot on either course at TPC.  Trees left and bunkers right mean you really need to hit your target on this one.

The hole doglegs sharply left from the DZ.  The approach is among the most straightforward as there is but a single large bunker on the left and open area to bailout right.


Tee view

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 13: Par 4, 413 Yards


One of my favorite holes on the Pines.  The line of charm on the tee shot makes you want to take as much off left as you can, but a wide fairway is available to the right.  There is no need to challenge the bunkers as an approach from anywhere but the right bunkers or right edge of the fairway is just fine.

Black Tee





White Tee (381 Yards)





The approach is uphill and fairly open to a green that appears to be in a large bowl.

From 125 yards out




From 50 yards out





The bowl is not as defined as it looks from the fairway.  Shots that miss the green will not kick onto the green but instead will funnel to the low points in the bowl.  At best the shape of the bowl will stop errant shots from running into the long grass.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 14: Par 4, 345 Yards

I think this hole is intended to play downwind, but both times I played it I got it into the wind.  The carry to reach the fairway is about 200 yards.  Shouldn't be a problem for a guy playing 7400 yards, but into a 3-club wind, it's a long way.

The fairway is split into an upper/lower sections.  The upper section is on the left and is guarded by a bunker.  This is the preferred placement off the tee.  The lower fairway is wide open but leaves a more difficult approach.


Black Tee





White Tee (325 yards)




Approaches from the upper part of the fairway give a clear view of the green, but...




Approach from the right can see just a portion of the flag but provide a better line to a back-left pin.  The fairway bunker in view will only effect strategy on downwind days.




The extent of the run-offs around the green suggest that the green was intended to be attacked with nothing more than a very short iron or even a chip/putt.


Just over the green balls will run 20+ yards off the green.





The most controversial feature of this hole is a bunker placed in the run-off right of the green.  I presume that this shot was intended to catch tee shots going for the green rather than approaches missing the green, but I could be wrong.  Shots that miss the green 1 yard right will roll all the way into the bunker.  Recovery from there is all but impossible.  This bunker is a recipe for a ball-in-pocket for most players.  Bunker shot, uphill where anything at all short rolls back into the bunker and thin/long will find another run-off.  Dare I use the word unfair again?





Nice tie-in to the next tee.  If you get pissed off enough after your ball trundles down the run-off over the green, just grab your driver and play the next hole!

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 15: Par 5, 581 Yards

As wide a fairway as you will ever see, yet you are drawn to challenge the bunker on the right.  Playing long, uphill and into the wind, the player really wants to leave as short a second as possible.  Of course, the only place you can't miss is in that bunker or in the long grass right of it.




The preferred angle for the second shot is from the left.

Second shots from the right are blind because of the large bunker.  The fairway snakes a bit to the right for the second shot meaning the bulk of the fairway is actually straight over the bunker.




Second from the left




Approach to the green cannot be missed long/left.  The green runs off into pines directly over the green and shots left will find a steep run-off.




The run-off to the left:

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 16: Par 4, 460 Yards

Another hole in the stretch from 12-18 that plays in basically the same direction.  The days I played it, these holes played into a headwind and by the time I got to the long 16th, I was getting pretty sick of it.

The tee shot is blind to a narrow-ish fairway - narrow enough that into the wind losing a ball in the long grass right or trees left is certainly an issue. 




The preferred angle is from the right as this will allow an approach with a long club to use the contours short/right of the green.  Approaches from the left must deal with a series of deep bunkers.


Approach from right





Approach from left




The view is really beautiful from this eternity green though the green is arguably too undulating for such a difficult hole. 

[Anthony Gray]

  The greens have alot of interest. More than I would have imagined. Very aesthetic bunkering. Looks like a great place. One more nice thread.

  Anthony

[RJ_Daley]

This is such an enjoyable place to linger for a few minutes after you hole out.  The dramatic view from the top of the capstone edge down into the pine strewn river canyon with wind whistling through the canyon is one of those places to contemplate this and that.

As for the hole, it is that decidedly different tee shot from most of what one has experienced all round.  It feels narrow (although my recollection is that there is at least a 50 yard corridor to work with.  While I don't/can't play from the way back tees, the forward tees still seemed to draw me to the unfavorable left.  But, approach despite the scary nest of staged bunkers left, seemed to feel natural to come bounding in from short on the right, safely on the contoured green.  The route to the next tee in the pines, just seems to leave the prairie for a time, which left me with a slightly refreshed feeling to get ready for the push to the finish.  I liked it.

Going back to the shared corridor 8th-9th, I really loved those two holes.  For a old guy to have a chance to drive a green on 9th, from a forward tee ~265, and doing it with driving one and trundling up from the low foregreen and actually stopping on the shallowish green, was a thrill.  The first sight of the rear of the green and what could await if you go long, was a 'whew' moment.

 

[Jason Topp]

Mark:

Thanks for all of these tours.  If you could pick one - which course from your tour would you play?

[Adam Clayman]

Mark, I'm not going to go over hole by hole, or feature by feature, with you. Tyler Swedberg (sp?) toured me around this course before I played them both, twice now. He said that it's an even split with the golfers over which course is preferred, but, that split is clearly defined by the purist golf, preferring the Dunes, while the Pines course appeals more to the traditional golfer.

My opinion, after seeing your photos, is that while there are some good holes both in the trees, and out in the sand hills, my favorites are the transition holes. The ones that run just on the outskirts of being in the trees. 6 is my favorite and 9 is diabolical. 15 plays great as a par 4 from the forward tees as the bunker complex right looms large.

I also think you need to wake up a little earlier, or stay out there a little later, to get better pictures. The mid day sun washes out all the cool ground movements. Just a suggestion if you were so inclined, as to want to wow us even more, with your great threads.

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark:

Thanks for all of these tours.  If you could pick one - which course from your tour would you play?

Jason,

I'm not quite sure what you're asking of me.

If it is which course would I want to replay from my recently completed trip, the answer is easily RCCC. I only got to play it once and twice had to get off the course because of thunderstorms/hail.  Despite the weather, it was still one of my most enjoyable rounds of golf ever.

If it is which course I would play for the rest of my life it's Ballyneal.

If it is just based on the photo tours I have done, it's TPC (Dunes)

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark, I'm not going to go over hole by hole, or feature by feature, with you. Tyler Swedberg (sp?) toured me around this course before I played them both, twice now. He said that it's an even split with the golfers over which course is preferred, but, that split is clearly defined by the purist golf, preferring the Dunes, while the Pines course appeals more to the traditional golfer.

My opinion, after seeing your photos, is that while there are some good holes both in the trees, and out in the sand hills, my favorites are the transition holes. The ones that run just on the outskirts of being in the trees. 6 is my favorite and 9 is diabolical. 15 plays great as a par 4 from the forward tees as the bunker complex right looms large.

I also think you need to wake up a little earlier, or stay out there a little later, to get better pictures. The mid day sun washes out all the cool ground movements. Just a suggestion if you were so inclined, as to want to wow us even more, with your great threads.

AC,

I'm surprised that the split is down the middle.  As I've said a few times, it's not even close for me.

I think a big part of it is that I didn't really like the holes through the pines, not that there are so many of them.  I travelled a long way to the Sand Hills of Nebraska for sand hills golf and I guess the holes with trees on both sides didn't exactly blow me away.

I could see 15 as being a really good hole, but both times I played the course I had it straight into a really strong wind.  I do my best to try to imagine how the hole/course would play in different winds, but actually playing in the other winds and just thinking about them are two really different things.  In fact, perhaps this is why I liked Dunes so much more.  I got it in a couple of different winds so I got to see how good every hole could play, not just how it played the one day I saw it. 

RE the pictures, unfortunately there will be no early AM or late PM pictures, at least if I can help it.  I'm happy to take the pictures as best I can and post courses that I think the DG will be interested in, but I like to sleep in, play 36 and get back for dinner at a normal time.  I'll leave capturing the fairway undulations to the professional photographers out there.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 17: Par 3, 183 Yards

A pretty hole that need not be built in the Sand Hills.  It is fairly straightforward with a difficult, undulating green that falls away into a river back-left of the green.  Pictures of the green, unfortunately, are nowhere to be found.






Hole 18: Par 5, 598 Yards

Hello OPTIONS!  There are so many ways to play this hole that I literally stood in the middle of the fairway for 10 minutes trying to figure out which was best (don't worry, there was no one behind me).

First choice is from the tee:
If you look you're gonna go for it in two, challenge the tree on the left.
If you know you're gonna play it as a three-shotter, challenge the bunkers on the right
If you're like 90% of golfers and are happy just to have it in play, aim down the middle.


Black Tee




White Tee (550 yards)




The view from the second shot is very confusing.  Having a yardage book is awfully helpful here.  This picture is taken from ~300 yards out.  From here you can:
- Go for it if you can carry it about 250
- Lay-up left in a cleverly cut-out chunk of fairway, leaving about 160 yards in
- Lay-up right
--Lay-up right and challenge bunkers close to left hazard
--lay-up right and don't challenge bunkers leaving long third / difficult angle to green.




This picture is taken from ~240 yards out.  The carry is now only about 200 yards at the green. 




There is a portion of fairway cut-out on the left that allows a player to lay-up leaving a fairly long (160+) third, but the easiest angle into the green.




View from a perfectly laid-up shot to the right, leaving a difficult angle to back pins (the pin is difficult to see, but is just left of the deck-chairs).





One of the more subtle greens on the golf course.





And after your round, sit back, have a beer and listen to the sounds of the bagpiper who comes out each evening