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Whistling Straits Fescue Fairways

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Bob (Guest):
This is not a short course on fine fescue but I do want to clarify a few things.  First, the colonial bent that Tom Doak speaks of is not a creeping bent.  In most places in Ireland and Scotland it serves as more of a nurse grass and the fescues then dominate (and there is always a little poa annua sooner or later -what they call in the British Isles meadowgrass).  The presence of the bent helps the turf take the wear as well.  A typical mix would be 80% fine fescue and 20% non-creeping bent (such as Colonial, but there are others such as Lance).

All the experiences I have had with fine fescues in the British Isles have been a success.  However, at good seaside links course they promote very strong root growth to make it through times of increased wear of drought.  Let's not forget that most of the Seaside Links course in the British Isles have been around for a 100 years+.  This is certainly advantageous in developing good stands of fine fescue with very strong roots.  Perhaps they do not have the strong rooting to make it through times of wear at Whistling Straits??

I think some of the biggest issues with Whistling Straits are the high temperatures in the summer and the growing medium.  The summer temps. can be 75-85 any day of the week all summer.  I have never seen an 85 degree day on the sea in lBritish Isles links golf.  The growing medium at Whistling Straits is modified as well.  It has been capped with sand and topsoil.  This may affect the sand/soil enough to modify the performance of the fine fescue.

It may also have to do with the varieties of the fine fescue.  Are they the creeping fine fescues? (chewings, slender creeping red, etc.)  If not they may not lay down as well.  The great thing about fine fescues in links courses is that they are mown at about 1/2" and they lay down with a little wear like they are mown at 1/8" and play very fast.

Having said that - everytime I've played Whistling Straits (Straits Course) it has played fast.

One thing I DID like is that the slightly longer fairway grass  resulted in a "flyer" lie almost all the time which often encouraged you to bounce the ball onto the green.  

I would agree that the greens are quite receptive and if you do get a good lie or are hitting to a par 3 they will hold very well and you can "throw it at the pin".  Again, the greens are the new bentgrass variety (A or G series).  This does not exist on British Isles links courses.

Do they get far more play than your typical seaside links and the turf suffers accordingly - I would say yes.  Whistling Straits sells out tee times for months in advance and has players from sunup to sundown.  But, then again St. Andrews does too (although I think they are an exception).

It's tough to say unless you're the superintendent at Whistling Straits.  It's very easy to sit back and criticize but few of us know the details of the circumstances they have to deal with.  Matts - you would certainly be complaining alot more if the turf was shaved down and was dead (not just brown) on your next visit.

BCrosby:
Bob -

Great post.  I am a layman and know little about turf issues.  But always happy to learn.

Question:  I live in Atlanta and don't recall seeing creeping fescue in this part of the country.  Is it a variety that does not survive our hot summers?

Bob

Michael_Stachowicz:
The only thing I can add is that fescue does not like cart traffic.  Fescue is extremely sensitive to wear in high traffic areas.  Mixing with colonials would mean that the colonials would persist in the wear areas after the fescue is long gone.

As stated earlier, fescue has almost no lateral growth to recover from divots.  So a fairway divot repair program is a must.

I'm afraid fescue sounds like a great idea, but the golfing masses would percieve it as substandard, no matter how good the playing surface is.  It doesn't have the candy green most golfers look for in a top golf course, which is unfortunate.

RJ_Daley:
Thank you for you input and information Bob.  Indeed, the soil structure of the sand and slightly clayey cap placed over the hardpad undergrade at Whistling is a big factor.  I think the fairways tend to be more firm by virtue of the soil structure countering the slightly higher cut of their fescue/rye blend fairways.  I imagine compaction is minimized with walking only policy and the only vehicles on the fairways are the mowers themselves.  

Wild Horse's blue fairways are cut at 5/8, I think.  They are as fast if not faster than Whistling because the soil structure is very high content, and favorable particle size sand.  The rhizome creeping nature of blue and response to fert/K helps it to recover from divot injury fast.  The mixed bunch/rhizome growth nature of fescues are tougher to recover fast.  Sand Hills has less rounds per year by far than either WS or WH, so that is a big factor too. Plus, the sand blowing out there, practically top dresses itself and keeps down thatch or puffiness, also aiding in fast conditions, I think.

Tom Doak:
"The masses would perceive it as substandard."

That depends on where you are!  Can anyone here recall anyone coming back from Sand Hills or Bandon Dunes and complaining about the "substandard" turf?  [I've only heard it once or twice, and it was from someone who was emphatic before they saw the course about fescue being the wrong choice.]

I think the fescue works better at Sand Hills and Bandon Dunes because they're isolated, and there's nothing else to compare them to.  On the other hand, when High Pointe was practically across the street from The Bear, or Spanish Bay from Pebble, or Whistling Straits from Blackwolf Run, and when the green fees are high, the paying customer wants to know why they didn't use the "better" turf next door.

Fescue will work in heat [I've seen the Sand Hills when it's 100] or humidity [not many dry days in the U.K.], but not heat AND humidity.  It's also not worth a crap unless the soil is truly sandy, and I'm not sure the soils at Whistling Straits were suitable.  But, I still think they should mow it tighter and see.  If it doesn't hold out, then overseed it with bent like everyone else wants them to.

RJ:  One of the most brilliant decisions they made at Wild Horse was how to grass the place.  They used the bluegrass fairway mix you discussed to address divot-healing concerns, but switched to fescue 30-40 yards in front of the greens, so you can play all the links shots around the greens which I talked about.

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