[John Kavanaugh]

You and me and most everyone else are out there playing a game--they aren't.

It is not just a game when you leave work early, drive 70 miles, play in 100 deg heat, risk the same amount of money that you just gave your wife a load of shit for because you saw a new pair of unworn Burberry shoes in the closet, then find yourself back home with only time to put your self to sleep at night reliving the round in your head.  If I'm going to piss my life away on a game I'm going full stream.

[Bill_McBride]

Brian,

Muirfield is rather longer than Huntercombe but has paths specifically for foursomes (each green has two paths leaving it, one to the next tee, another to the fairway/green on the next hole).  I think 2hr 15 mins is unrealistic.  I have, however, played in both foursomes and singles that have got round in 2hr 30 mins, each time with at least one septuagenarian in the group.  It's a bit of a rush playing singles but not too bad in a foursome.

Mark, foursome walking paths are one of my favorite things about golf in the UK!   It's a social game as you stroll off toward the fairway not the tee with your opposite number.

[Kalen Braley]

Brian,

Muirfield is rather longer than Huntercombe but has paths specifically for foursomes (each green has two paths leaving it, one to the next tee, another to the fairway/green on the next hole).  I think 2hr 15 mins is unrealistic.  I have, however, played in both foursomes and singles that have got round in 2hr 30 mins, each time with at least one septuagenarian in the group.  It's a bit of a rush playing singles but not too bad in a foursome.

Mark, foursome walking paths are one of my favorite things about golf in the UK!   It's a social game as you stroll off toward the fairway not the tee with your opposite number.

I get the 4 hr rounds....and keeping pace to that. 4 hrs seems like the perfect pace to play normally, hit some good shots, tell a few jokes, and play the game.

But I don't get the 2.5 hr speed rounds.  Is golf really that painful that you want to get it done and over with that quickly? 

[JMEvensky]

You and me and most everyone else are out there playing a game--they aren't.

It is not just a game when you leave work early, drive 70 miles, play in 100 deg heat, risk the same amount of money that you just gave your wife a load of shit for because you saw a new pair of unworn Burberry shoes in the closet, then find yourself back home with only time to put your self to sleep at night reliving the round in your head.  If I'm going to piss my life away on a game I'm going full stream.

It's a game--not your livelihood.Sometimes,it's just a really serious game.

JK,why bitch at your wife for the unworn kicks?Weren't you considering some bespoke John Lobb London?Maybe she's just saving them to wear on one of your trips to get fitted.

[Bill Brightly]

Pat's not really upset about range finders, I think he just yearns for a return to the days when you had to use your eyes and play the game far more by feel. I  think it is a cool notion, but as others have said, those days are long gone.

So Pat is wrong to expand his rant to say rangefinders cause slow play. Sadly, perhaps, I have built shooting the distance into my pre-shot routine, (shooting takes 5 seconds max) and I guarantee that I play as fast as anyone on this board. And knowing the exact distance does not take the fun out of the game. If I'm 160 out I probably hit full 7, at 165 I'll go to cut 6. If I'm in rough and the greens are rolling, I'll probably hit 8. I'm not saying I am good enough to play like the pros, but I think it is fun to work out a proper strategy based upon knowing the exact distance, just like the pros.

Slow play is caused by slow players, period.

[Garland Bayley]

...
But I don't get the 2.5 hr speed rounds.  Is golf really that painful that you want to get it done and over with that quickly? 

No, but socializing is.

[Niall C]

Pat,

I remember back when we wore metal spikes, the pace of play was quicker.  

The influence of soft spikes on the pace of play cannot be dismissed.  

David

Clearly things started grinding to a halt when we adopted the larger american size of ball. More ball to move, its going to take longer, stands to reason doesn't it.

Niall

[Mark McKeever]

Agreed.  I don't like playing a round where Im constantly 20 steps behind someone and don't have time to soak in the golf course because they want to be done in under 3 hours.  

Mark

[Mark Pearce]

Kalen,

No.  At Muirfield a 2.5 (or, perhaps, 3) hour round of singles in the morning, followed by a good, long, lunch and a bottle or two of claret, followed by a 2.5 hour foursomes is about as enjoyable a day's golf as you'll have.

And 2.5 hours for a game of foursomes really doesn't feel rushed.  Honestly.  The players teeing off tee off.  Their partners make the short walk to the balls from the position they are in and play the second shots.  Both sets walk to the green, and finish the hole.  The players driving on the next hole walk to the tee, their partners walk to the fairway/green.  Repeat for 18 holes.  Plenty of time to chat to your opponent whilst walking and, of course, over that lunch.  Yes, you walk at a decent pace.  Yes, you get on with playing your shot when you get to the ball.  But that's not rushing.  That's playing golf.

I suspect all the Deal members on here would agree.

[Mark Pearce]

Agreed.  I don't like playing a round where Im constantly 20 steps behind someone and don't have time to soak in the golf course because they want to be done in under 3 hours.  

Mark

Why would you be 20 steps behind? 

[Kyle Henderson]

...
You should also include the guy who discusses every putt with his caddy or partner in minuscule detail... but never makes anything. There is much more time wasted on greens than anywhere IMHO.
...

This gets back to the sign I suggest gets posted in every club house.

If you are not on tour, you are not good enough to play slow.

I would suggest the sign should say, If you are not on tour, you are not good enough to play slowly.

[Mike Hendren]

Slow play is nothing more than a sympton of a self-centric culture where I am more important than you are.  Good luck fixing that.  Next thing you guys can tackle is the sad sartorial state of air travel.  

Barney:  Mr. 69.  Just think, I knew him when he was just a Hillbilly.

Pat, I can't help but thinking of that iconic New Yorker aerial map of the country when I think of you because:  

But here in the real world
It's not that easy at all.
-Alan Jackson

Mike

[Dan Kelly]

Big Fish: No caddies.
Scorecard says, poetic'ly:
"Play Without Delay"

[Tim Gavrich]

I would like to claim that caddies can actually slow play down.  Having been on both the caddying and playing sides of foursomes with two double-bag caddies (good ones too!), I can say with virtual certainty that the round takes 20-30 minutes longer, what with the loopers criss-crossing the fairways to make sure all players are ready to play.

Ban the double caddies and speed up the game!

Just kidding; the pay is too nice to pass up for a double bag, most times, in spite of the shoulder/neck/foot ache.

[Jud_T]

"Shivas, white courtesy phone.  White courtesy phone for Shivas."

[JMEvensky]

Kalen,

No.  At Muirfield a 2.5 (or, perhaps, 3) hour round of singles in the morning, followed by a good, long, lunch and a bottle or two of claret, followed by a 2.5 hour foursomes is about as enjoyable a day's golf as you'll have.

And 2.5 hours for a game of foursomes really doesn't feel rushed.  Honestly.  The players teeing off tee off.  Their partners make the short walk to the balls from the position they are in and play the second shots.  Both sets walk to the green, and finish the hole.  The players driving on the next hole walk to the tee, their partners walk to the fairway/green.  Repeat for 18 holes.  Plenty of time to chat to your opponent whilst walking and, of course, over that lunch.  Yes, you walk at a decent pace.  Yes, you get on with playing your shot when you get to the ball.  But that's not rushing.  That's playing golf.

I suspect all the Deal members on here would agree.

I'll apologize for the stupid question beforehand,but

What happens at a 2-ball club if a guy in a weekly group  has something come up and can't play?Do the other 3 members have to sit out if they can't recruit a substitute?

[Mark Pearce]

JME,

One for the Dealies to answer.  I think the answer at HCEG is that weekly foursomes don't really exist.  The members mix their playing partners far more than at 4 ball clubs.  Which is, I think, a good thing for the club.

Far from a stupid question, by the way.

[SL_Solow]

Mark; I agree.  Last fall I had the pleasure of spending such a day.  The afternoon 2 ball was great fun.  We were 4 Yanks, 3 single digits and a 19 and we played in 2:30.  We would have been faster but we played through 2 groups and waited on the last couple of holes on a third.  When I chided the caddies for the embarassment that 4 Yanks were playing throug groups at Muirfield he told me the others were probably Brits.

[Greg Tallman]

For decades I've opposed 250, 200, 150 and 100 yard plates in fairways, yardages on sprinkler heads, laser devices, GPS systems and every and any measuring device on a golf course.

Those opposed to my views claim that these devices (crutches) lead to faster play.

That's the MYTH.

They don't lead to faster play, they lead to slower play.

With all of the measuring devices incorporated in the last few decades, pace of play hasn't decreased, it's increased.

Golfers go into their bags, get their devices, shoot the flagstick and other objects, put the device back in their bag, pick their club and hit.  OR, they search for a sprinkler head, finally find it, then pace the distance between their ball and the sprinkler head, then go to their bag and pick their club.

Get rid of all of these devices, rely on your eye and caddy and that WILL speed the game up.

Approach your ball, look at your target, pick a club and hit your ball and then start walking again and the game will speed up.

End of Rant !

Nice rant and even better stance but eliminating these things has zero chance of happening and I personally believe a basic handheld GPS unit is the best way to go. In fact I am trying, against my preferences that mirror your own, to provide that which i describe to each of our resort guests. Too bad Sky Caddie's customer service is about as good as Mickelson's short putting. Shall we simply say... off the mark.

[JMEvensky]

JME,

One for the Dealies to answer.  I think the answer at HCEG is that weekly foursomes don't really exist.  The members mix their playing partners far more than at 4 ball clubs.  Which is, I think, a good thing for the club.

Far from a stupid question, by the way.

Thanks.

I think that 2-ball clubs would be an acquired taste for a lot of people on this side--weekly regular games are the backbone of a lot of clubs.That said,frequent mixing/matching of partners does make a lot of sense for the members and the club itself--whether playing 4-somes or 4-balls.

Since I'm playing a hot hand wrt non-stupid questions...

Would 2-ball clubs produce or attract high caliber players?My completely uninformed idea is that the better players would prefer to play their own ball and would seek out clubs that allowed it.

[Mark Pearce]

These clubs do all allow singles play (2 players playing their own ball) and have competitions in that format.

Again, I can't speak for Deal, Huntercombe and other 2 ball clubs but I suspect HCEG does not have a large number of very strong golfers.

Lots of UK clubs don't have fourball play in competitions, by the way.  My clubs (the Northumberland and Crail) both play medal competitions in three balls.

[Bill_McBride]

 Next thing you guys can tackle is the sad sartorial state of air travel.  

LOL.  Do you remember the days when we wore a jacket and tie to fly?   

That reminds me of one of my first dates with my first (and current) wife in 1967.  I invited her to go to a Giants game, and she was pretty astonished when I showed up in a blazer and tie!

Yes, we used to dress better.

[Mark McKeever]

Agreed.  I don't like playing a round where Im constantly 20 steps behind someone and don't have time to soak in the golf course because they want to be done in under 3 hours.  

Mark

Why would you be 20 steps behind? 

Because I outdrove them and they aren't stopping for me to hit.  Obviously...



Mark

[JMEvensky]

These clubs do all allow singles play (2 players playing their own ball) and have competitions in that format.

Again, I can't speak for Deal, Huntercombe and other 2 ball clubs but I suspect HCEG does not have a large number of very strong golfers.

Lots of UK clubs don't have fourball play in competitions, by the way.  My clubs (the Northumberland and Crail) both play medal competitions in three balls.

Thanks again.

[Brad Wilbur]

I played in a couples event over the weekend where the husband would GPS AND laser each yardage.  I was stuck walking off yardages from the nearest sprinkler, which seems to be relatively easy.  If I was relatively close to one of the 50 yard markers, I could estimate it within a couple yards of being exact(in about 2 seconds).  Sometimes when those darn trees get in the way, he would have to laser it 3 or even four times.  At one point, I flared one right because he lasered moments before I swung, and spent my swing listening for another laser noise.

I would like to say I played much better than him, but his 69 on his own ball was pretty impressive.  Rats!!

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