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John Shimp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2011, 08:12:39 PM »
Pat Burke, I agree w your feelings.  I have a great musician who isn't into golf,  a scratch 13 yr old that needs no push from me to practice and. Succeed, and a younger one that is more sensitive and doesnt have or need a focus.  It's all good w me.  The one that's into golf has always been p to the challenge. Dragged his bag at n earlyage readily and has always wanted to trybto be good. Who knows where it or the others end up re golf or other interests.

Matt Day

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2011, 08:44:23 PM »
I've mentioned on other threads that we introduced a kids free afternoon on the last Sunday of the month. It has grown from 17 kids in the first month to 52 kids last month. The key thing we are trying to do is make the afternoon fun for the kids, main points have been

- there is a free clinic for the kids before the golf, we are lucky enough to have an auto tee up system so that's cool for the kids
- we close nine holes down so that only the kids and parents are playing. This lets them have a go without any hassles from regular customers
- cones are put down around 200 from the green on par 4's and 5's so that its not too long for them
- parents are encouraged to have a go as well, but not focus on scoring or competing
- each kid gets a pack with two balls, tees and a flyer for level 1 junior clinics, thats as far as we go with the selling
- we have live music on afterwards and cheap food, it keeps the parents at the golf course for another hour and the kids go and have a putt or go back on the range

Again this was posted on another thread but this photo sums up the aim of our kids free day, little tackers having a go



Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2011, 11:00:13 PM »
I've mentioned on other threads that we introduced a kids free afternoon on the last Sunday of the month. It has grown from 17 kids in the first month to 52 kids last month. The key thing we are trying to do is make the afternoon fun for the kids, main points have been

- there is a free clinic for the kids before the golf, we are lucky enough to have an auto tee up system so that's cool for the kids
- we close nine holes down so that only the kids and parents are playing. This lets them have a go without any hassles from regular customers
- cones are put down around 200 from the green on par 4's and 5's so that its not too long for them
- parents are encouraged to have a go as well, but not focus on scoring or competing
- each kid gets a pack with two balls, tees and a flyer for level 1 junior clinics, thats as far as we go with the selling
- we have live music on afterwards and cheap food, it keeps the parents at the golf course for another hour and the kids go and have a putt or go back on the range

Again this was posted on another thread but this photo sums up the aim of our kids free day, little tackers having a go




Matt:

The heck with the kids; that's a pretty cool-looking hole. Details, please. ;D

Matt Day

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2011, 11:29:05 PM »
Phil
its 8th hole on the one of the two courses we have, the tee shot lets it down at the moment but thats going to be rectified. This course gets about 75,000 rounds per annum. That's what you get for public/municipal golf in Perth

http://360-golf.com/CourseDetail.aspx?courseID=18

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2011, 12:55:37 AM »
This year I was struck by how many games some of the boys missed this year due to other commitments: traveling baseball team, traveling soccer team, traveling lacrosse team, swim team, karate, horse riding camp, camp and traveling swim teams. About 4 games into our season, where we were forced to play with only 8 kids, my son made the comment about how it was unfair to his teammates to schedule all of these other activities. Upon further reflection, I wondered if the root of the issue was the parents, who signed their kids up to every imaginable activity without thought of honoring their commitment to their team, but rather their concern with keeping the kids busy.

I've really enjoyed this thread.  My son is in tennis camp this week.  Yesterday afterward it was two games of bowling followed by his basketball practice and today it was some hockey followed by me playing tennis for an hour with him.  It is very hard to navigate the waters as a sports parent.  Best book I've read on the subject is "Whose Game is it, Anyway?"

The one post I'll respond to is David's.  I don't blame the kids and I won't blame the parents.  Fault lies with the administrators for all of these sports.  Many say they believe in the benefits of multiple sports, and science (see: Dr. Istvan Balyi) supports this.  Soccer where I live has a split season for ages U9-U11 and then becomes more of a straight 10-months.  Even the lesser commitment is Aug-Nov and Mar-May.  Hockey is Sept-early Mar.  Pop Warner is four days per week, for multiple hours, from August into November.  With the overlapping seasons there is no way to try several different things.  Kids also like lacrosse, golf, bowling, tennis, gymnastics, swimming and diving, riding horses, chess, music, baseball (which is YEAR ROUND for many Foridians), and more.

I shouldn't say there is no way.  You'll just have to miss stuff.  They could program for shorter seasons with increased frequency.  But as Shiv says, what would they do with the rest of their time?

Mike Sweeney

Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2011, 07:28:25 AM »
I feel fortunate that both my kid's were able to build a solid base at the New York Athletic Club's kids program:

The Saturday Morning Program (SMP) is available to all NYAC member's children between the ages of eight and sixteen. This program is designed to provide basic through advanced instruction in a weekly schedule of assorted athletics including: swimming and water polo, calisthenics, basketball, track and field, soccer, judo, wrestling, boxing, fencing and racquet sports. The Club's Olympic and world class athletes head all of these programs. The Club also sponsors the SMP's Essay Contest, Annual Winter Outing and the June White Water Rafting trip. Although the Club occasionally nurtures that future Olympian, its real purpose is to engender an enjoyment of athletics, teamwork, social skills and good fellowship.

From that base, my older guy made the choice to focus in on squash where he plays at a high level, and for the first time this year, he now asks to play golf with his squash buddies - without Dad - which is a great thing. He could probably play golf now for a high school team, but his school doesn't have a team and that would probably ruin it for him. At his level, squash is a ten month sport and for right now, he simply loves it.

My Special Needs son learned how to swim and run at the NYAC and we never ever have to worry about him in the water like many Special Needs parents.

They both outgrew the program around 13 years old and we subsequently left the NYAC, but it was a great base to build from.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2011, 09:38:45 AM »


I’m the farthest thing from an expert but sometimes, kids need to do nothing but set up a game of kickball or tag with other kids in the neighborhood……


David,

That's the problem.  This would only happen today if it were a scheduled play date and it's hard enough to coordinate 2 kids' schedules, forget about 4 or more.  When I was a kid we simply wandered down to the field and whoever was there got together a pick up game of basketball, baseball, football or whatever.  Those days are simply over.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2011, 09:57:36 AM »
I get the impression that everyone thinks they are a better Dad than their Father was.  The funny thing is that if your kids turn out better than you it is a reverse indicator of that fact.  If you are so lucky, your son is more like your Dad.  Excellence either skips a generation or goes to another more deserving family.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2011, 12:44:18 PM »
Raising a jr golfer is complicated now. They need to play a pretty extensive summer schedule at a min to play college golf if they want.

For once, I know what I'm talking about -- and with all respect, this just isn't necessarily so.

It might be true for boys. It's not true for girls -- unless, perhaps, you're talking about Division I college golf.

My daughter has *never* played an extensive summer schedule of tournaments (three this summer, and that's the most she's ever entered). She's doing quite well in Division 3 golf.

If you're not looking to be a touring pro, or to have golf pay for college, you don't have to risk burnout. That's my experience, anyway.

P.S. to John K. -- No, you are not the only one who grew up with no ambition more compelling than not to disappoint his father. My own father died before I got the chance to disappoint/not disappoint him. I've made it very clear to my daughters that I have never been disappointed in them, and never will be. In this one regard, at least -- yes, I'm a better father than my father was.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2011, 12:48:32 PM »
I'm sorry but I believe the world is too harsh to teach children that a hug cures failure.  Picking yourself up and doing better cures failure.  I choose friends, I don't breed them.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2011, 01:00:50 PM »
I'm sorry but I believe the world is too harsh to teach children that a hug cures failure.  Picking yourself up and doing better cures failure.  I choose friends, I don't breed them.

You misconstrue me, John.

I have *faith* in them to give things their best effort. And they pay me back by doing so.

Call me Pollyanna, but as far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as "failure" if you give things your best effort.

This, too, I think: Hugs (literal or otherwise) make the inevitable disappointments more bearable. Might even be that they help keep the spirit alive, so as to give even better efforts the next time around.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2011, 02:03:24 PM »
We all have our own approaches to these issues.  I will contribute my 2 cents.  I am saddened by the push to make kids specialize at an early age.  Those who do so to try to get their kids into the professional ranks will fail most of the time and risk causing their children to lose the love of the game.  But in many communities if a child wants to make even a high school team,they have to specialize pretty early.  My solution was to leave it up to my kids.  My daughter was crazy for music, theater and dance and was pretty good.  So I attended a lot of concerts, plays and recitals.  My son, who is pretty small, loved golf from an early age.  Early in high school he realized that while he had a good swing, he would have to drop his other summer activities (spending them in the north woods) to have a chance.  I left it up to him and he chose to play tournaments.  He ended up a pretty good player who could have played at lower level DI or below.  Instead he made a long term choice to focus on his studies which is where his best talents lie and he has one year left in law school.  For me, the important thing was that after consulting with his parents and coaches, he made his own decisions.  Making those decision was part of growing up and while part of me wishes he could have enjoyed a broader experience, he learned a lot from having to determine what he wanted to do.

For me. that is a key to the parenting process.  Barney, I suppose I have been pretty lucky.  I too never wanted to disappoint my Dad, or my Mom for that matter. I still don't and I am almost 10 years older than you.  But that desire arose not out of any fear, rather it came from a mutual love and respect.  As I grew older we had our disagreements; mostly over politics in the late 60's (he eventually came closer to my way of thinking although I moved a little too) but we retained our mutual caring and have become best of friends while retaining a father son relationship.  All this despite the fact that Dad never saw many of my games because of an extremely busy work schedule.  I knew he was interested, he just had other things he had to do to build a business and take care of us.

I have been luckier than Dad in that my schedule has been more flexible so I have been able to watch my children's activities.  I have had very few rules, I guess I was lucky to have kids who understood that if they were well behaved they would get more leeway so I didn't have to spell the rules out.  I learned that from my folks.  When the kids got close to the line, we would talk our way through issues so that they would understand why their behaviour might be troubling.  The idea was to instill an approach that would allow them to figure out problems in a caring and ethical manner.  I suspect that they don't want to disappoint me or their mother.  But more importantly, they don't want to disappoint themselves.  We are also good friends, not in the way they are with their peers, but good enough so that we can go to ballgames, play golf etc and have real conversations and engage in good natured ribbing without any prompting.   Like I said, I am a lucky guy but I would like to believe I gave myself a chance to get lucky by encouraging my kids to make decisions that they were capable of making at any particular stage in life and by being supportive of them in their pursuit of the things they loved.  They still have a long way to go and I only hope I can continue to support them and enjoy the journey.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2011, 02:25:32 PM »
We all have our own approaches to these issues.  I will contribute my 2 cents.  I am saddened by the push to make kids specialize at an early age.  Those who do so to try to get their kids into the professional ranks will fail most of the time and risk causing their children to lose the love of the game.  But in many communities if a child wants to make even a high school team,they have to specialize pretty early.  My solution was to leave it up to my kids.  My daughter was crazy for music, theater and dance and was pretty good.  So I attended a lot of concerts, plays and recitals.  My son, who is pretty small, loved golf from an early age.  Early in high school he realized that while he had a good swing, he would have to drop his other summer activities (spending them in the north woods) to have a chance.  I left it up to him and he chose to play tournaments.  He ended up a pretty good player who could have played at lower level DI or below.  Instead he made a long term choice to focus on his studies which is where his best talents lie and he has one year left in law school.  For me, the important thing was that after consulting with his parents and coaches, he made his own decisions.  Making those decision was part of growing up and while part of me wishes he could have enjoyed a broader experience, he learned a lot from having to determine what he wanted to do.

For me. that is a key to the parenting process.  Barney, I suppose I have been pretty lucky.  I too never wanted to disappoint my Dad, or my Mom for that matter. I still don't and I am almost 10 years older than you.  But that desire arose not out of any fear, rather it came from a mutual love and respect.  As I grew older we had our disagreements; mostly over politics in the late 60's (he eventually came closer to my way of thinking although I moved a little too) but we retained our mutual caring and have become best of friends while retaining a father son relationship.  All this despite the fact that Dad never saw many of my games because of an extremely busy work schedule.  I knew he was interested, he just had other things he had to do to build a business and take care of us.

I have been luckier than Dad in that my schedule has been more flexible so I have been able to watch my children's activities.  I have had very few rules, I guess I was lucky to have kids who understood that if they were well behaved they would get more leeway so I didn't have to spell the rules out.  I learned that from my folks.  When the kids got close to the line, we would talk our way through issues so that they would understand why their behaviour might be troubling.  The idea was to instill an approach that would allow them to figure out problems in a caring and ethical manner.  I suspect that they don't want to disappoint me or their mother.  But more importantly, they don't want to disappoint themselves.  We are also good friends, not in the way they are with their peers, but good enough so that we can go to ballgames, play golf etc and have real conversations and engage in good natured ribbing without any prompting.   Like I said, I am a lucky guy but I would like to believe I gave myself a chance to get lucky by encouraging my kids to make decisions that they were capable of making at any particular stage in life and by being supportive of them in their pursuit of the things they loved.  They still have a long way to go and I only hope I can continue to support them and enjoy the journey.

Beautifully expressed. Worth way more than the two cents you're charging.

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Scott Stearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2011, 10:53:50 PM »
i have three, and iam trying to raise good sons, daughters, husbands, wives, parents and citizens.  Golf is a pastime and a tool with which to do so.  could not care less about raising junior golfers.   

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raising junior golfers....
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2011, 06:34:19 AM »
i have three, and iam trying to raise good sons, daughters, husbands, wives, parents and citizens.  Golf is a pastime and a tool with which to do so.  could not care less about raising junior golfers.   

If more followed this we might have more players in 15 years....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"