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Buck Wolter

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Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

DBE

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Slow Play and the USGA
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 09:38:13 PM »
At the USGA's marquee championships (US Open, Women's Open, Senior Open, Amateur and Women's Amateur), the courses are usually so difficult, the allotted time allowed to play is simply not enough. I read recently that at US Open Local Qualifying at Sawgrass CC an allotted time was established by the FSGA and when players were slower than these allotted times through certain holes and the group in front was off the hole in question, they were automatically penalized. If the allotted time was determined by a Committee that was inexperienced with how such a time should be determined (taking into account course difficulty, set up, weather, walks between holes, etc.,) then penalties would be unreasonable. Last summer's US Amateur at Chambers Bay during stroke play was a nightmare because of just these same reasons. While it is crucial that play be maintained at a reasonable pace, and there are a lot of slow players, it is only the last course of action to penalize. The PGA Tour does a great job with its pace of play and rounds with a course full of players in groups of threes does usually take between 4:20 and 5:00. The typical weekend round when play is in groups of two players usually betters 4:00. The Masters, US Open and PGA Championship cannot boast of these times as the course difficulty is so much, it simply cannot be done by even the world's best players. So what I'm saying is simply that my experience at most USGA championships is that course difficulty promotes slow play. Has anyone ever played in a US Open so that he has experienced, in competition, the narrowness of the fairways, the severity of the rough and the firmness and speed of the putting greens? I played in two US Junior Amateurs and both courses were far more difficult than anything I'd ever played at ages 16 and 17. I'd say the same for the US Amateurs, US Opens and Senior Opens I played or set up the courses. The kid, unless unreasonably slow, should have been given a break and allowed to score an ace on his score card.

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Slow Play and the USGA
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 09:50:17 PM »
I could be wrong but isn't David Staebler (quoted in the article for the USGA) from Philly?  I remember a gentleman of the same name running the Am Public Links qualifier at Glen Mills almost 10 years ago.

DBE

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Slow Play and the USGA
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 09:56:24 PM »
You are correct that Staebler is from Philadelphia. He was hired a few years ago by the USGA and works in their Rules and Competitions Department.

Jamie Van Gisbergen

Re: Slow Play and the USGA
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 10:35:50 PM »
Dave you bring an incredibly unique opinion/analysis to this thread. Pace of play in tournaments, and please correct me if I am wrong, is based on position on the course first, and then time if, and only if, a group falls out of position with the group in front? After that, as I understand it, once able to play, after the walk to the next tee or whatever, the first person to play has 1 minute to play a shot and the other players have 40 seconds from when they are able to play. Am I correct on that?

If I am correct, that would mean the group got far enough of of position to get a warning AND the players still played slow enough to get a bad time. Either way, the fact is, the group WAS warned they were slow/out of position AND the guys made little to no effort to play faster. Lets also not forget that when the group was penalized they were on the 5th hole. How on earth can you be far enough behind after 5 holes to get both a warning and a bad time?

Certainly I have not played golf at the same level as you, Mr. DaveE, but I have played a fair number of events, and I have even been put on the clock during an event because my two fellow competitors were incredibly slow, but I cannot fathom how a group could possibly be that far out of position after 5 holes.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Slow Play and the USGA
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 10:38:54 PM »
Jamie,
They may have started on the back nine, in that case #5 would be the 14th hole they played.

Jamie Van Gisbergen

Re: Slow Play and the USGA
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 10:45:18 PM »
Jamie,
They may have started on the back nine, in that case #5 would be the 14th hole they played.

Now that you mention it, I looked it up. He did start on #10 yesterday. Either way, he got a warning and kept playing slow. I feel only slightly sorry for him.

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