[Scott_Park]

Has anyone played Pine Canyon in Flagstaff, AZ?

Its a Jay Morrish design that has been open about a year.  

I've played about half of a dozen courses that Jay has been involved in and found them to be quite solid.  He seems to have been very much overshadowed by Weiskopf, which is particularly unfortunate since Weiskopf is regarded a little above Michael Jackson, but not as much as Ken Lay.

Comments on Pine Canyon and/or Jay Morrish?

Scott

[jg7236]

Let me know what golf courses are good in that area.  My girlfriend just got a new pharmaceutical sales job in that area and she will be based out of Flagstaff.  

Cheers,

John

[Scott_Park]

Bill,

Thanks for the update.

There is also a new course in Flag called Flagstaff Ranch, by Jerry Pate.  Have you played it?

Scott

[Andy Troeger]

I had a chance to play Flagstaff Ranch and Pine Canyon over the last few days and thought this thread would be the most logical update since it mentions both courses.

Bill touches on an issue that IMO affects both courses: they start off with a bang then don't quite keep the momentum going all the way though the round. Both courses seem typical of the area with lots of tall pines and dramatic landscape movement. Views of the mountains are available at both courses, but only in certain spots. They both certainly do well in terms of aesthetics.

Flagstaff Ranch was up first on Sunday afternoon. I'm not surprised that Bill mentioned site constraints--it would seem that this was a course where the primary goal was to sell lots around the holes. Most of them have homes or lots on one/both sides, although they are generally set back at a reasonable distance. The front nine still has quite a few solid holes, including 1, 2, 3, 6, and 8. It also offers a bit of a glimpse of coming attractions with overbearing trees pinching the effective landing area on #5 and 9.  The back nine also has a couple solid holes including #12, 14, 16, and 17. It has a couple more duds as well, including the 10th and 13th that border both sides of a creek bed. Both holes have trees that encroach on the line of play and force players away from the creek to get the best (only) angle. The 10th, however, has bunkers where that angle of approach would be, with OB further right, and the 13th (I think) is the hole Bill described above. Neither impressed. I didn't find the 11th especially strategic either--its a short four up the hill with a tree in the middle of the fairway short of the green. The tree makes you think, but none of the options seemed especially appealing. I laid back and hit a full wedge for an easy enough par. The best holes on the side (and perhaps the course) are the par threes, except for #7. The 18th is a bit odd since you hit the ball uphill off the tee and then come to a pond that lies above the level of the ground you stand on when you first approach it. The hole works I guess, as long as you ignore that oddity. I think Bill's rating ofa  Doak 5 is a bit generous...3 or 4 for me.

[Andy Troeger]

Pine Canyon was definitely the better of the two, as expected. The facilities are first rate and the little 19th hole with an island green is a nice touch and would certainly seem a fun tiebraker for the members.

Bill describes the course pretty well. The opening stretch is excellent--every hole in the first eight is a treat and they do leave the golfer wanting to see what comes next. They are not overly difficult, but give the golfer a chance to score (or not) depending on thoughtful play and execution. The 9th reminded me of Flagstaff Ranch a bit--another short four with a bit tree in the fairway. The 10th is a pretty solid hole, but 11-14 are very scorable with only #14 also being memorable. #14 reminded me a bit of a few of Jim Engh's short fours where an aggressive play is rewarded with a wider fairway whereas the timid golfer who wants to lay up or lay back has to execute well to find a narrow fairway. Thoughtful hole. The final three holes were pretty good IMO--perhaps not especially difficult but worthy closers with the potential for birdies and bogies.

I think Pine Canyon holds up pretty well against the better courses in Arizona. I think Forest Highlands Canyon is still pretty easily the best in the state, but Pine Canyon fits somewhere in the big bunch behind it. It reminded me of The Rim--lots of eye candy, very playable generally, but enough architectural heft to be worth seeing for that as well. I'm a bit surprised Bill found it walkable--I rode but it seemed like the green-to-tee distance was pretty long in most cases. I did appreciate that they had cut walking paths in certain spots, so that may have helped out quite a bit for walkers and did show they had been considered.

[Jim Franklin]

How far back did you go to find a 7 year old thread? That is dedication.

[Andy Troeger]

Not really...I searched for "Flagstaff Ranch" and got about five hits with most being fleeting references. Since I don't expect more than a handful of guys here have played it, this should return to the abyss pretty shortly 

[Jim Franklin]

Unfortunately the reviews do not make taking a trip there very enticing. It is a cool part of the country though, but if I go back, I want to see Forest Highlands again.

[Matthew Petersen]

Forest Highlands is certainly a masterpiece. Sadly there hasn't been anything else built in the wonderful mountains of Arizona that has even seemed to challenge it at all in the years since. The Rim Club is Payson is quite good, but nowhere near FH. I have heard Chapparal Pines is good and Hassayampa, as well, though I don't think anyone would put them on a FH level either. Nothing else in the Prescott or Flagstaff area even seems to measure up to those.

[Andy Troeger]

Matthew,
Overall I would tend to agree, although I wouldn't sell Pine Canyon short. The first eight holes are on par with anything at Forest Highlands, it just doesn't quite maintain that level all the way to the end.

I'd probably order the Flagstaff/Sedona/Payson group as follows: FH-Canyon, The Rim, FH-Meadow, Pine Canyon, Seven Canyons, Chaparral Pines, Flagstaff Ranch. Haven't been to Prescott.

Matt Ward always championed Chaparral Pines and Hassayampa. CP is a players' course--if you can drive the ball straight you can definitely score. If you spray it off the tee, you'll have a long day. I think its worth a look, but it definitely isn't a course where I would have much success.

Arizona is an interesting state for golf. There are only a few courses that deserve mention as being great, and you can argue that none of them make the top fifty in the country. There are a ton of courses, however, that would be very competitive on that next level.

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