GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group
Sandwich vs. Deal
Sean_A:
--- Quote from: Mark Chaplin on August 24, 2011, 06:13:48 AM ---About time this round finshed;
The 13th
RStG - from the traditional members tees a blind tee shot at an angle over a ridge to a flat fairway, aim at the Princes accommodat. The green has a spine running through the middle making hitting the correct side of the green important for making 3 or saving par. The Open tee makes the hole longer but dead straight and you can see everything....yuk.
Deal - two large bunkers set the line of play, whilst there is room left the perfect line is over the centre of the left bunker. Cross bunkers do not come into play unless the tee shot is in trouble or it's a strong following wind which is unusual. Three left greenside bunkers rarely come into play. The green is tilted towards the player and probably rises three feet front to back, missing right leaves a tricky chip or putt up a ridge. Unusually for Deal the fringe does not take a running shot, I guess this is run off from the watering.
Both are good but neither a standout hole - HALF
--- End quote ---
Chappers
Good synopsis. Half for me too.
SANDWICH 2 UP
Sorry, I thought I was quite clear that a short hole playing prevailing down wind should have a decent gap between bunkers. You believe there is plenty of space and apparently hopping bunkers as a reasonable play. Fair enough - I disagree.
Ciao
Sean_A:
JNC
I think you are mistaken that Suez doesn't come into play. I know you can reach it from the daily tees when conditions are right.
For me this is a no brianer decision. The Suez uses OOB very well and I dislike Deal's 13th precisely because of the right bunkering scheme with the prevailing wind off the right. I am probably in the minority, but to me the bunkering of Deal is its weakest element.
SANDWICH 3 UP
Ciao
JNC Lyon:
Sean,
I'm not sure I understand your argument about the bunker scheme on 13. The two bunkers at the corner guard the best angle into the green--it's that simple. The three bunkers across the middle are strange, and they probably don't need to be there. However, it is a solid par four nonetheless.
Sandwich's 14th is the better of the two holes, no question. While I do like Deal's 14th, Sandwich's 14th is a classic and, as Sean says, it uses the boundary line very well.
SANDWICH 1 UP
HOLE NUMBER 15:
Sandwich: Laid out over the flattest terrain on the course, many dismiss this hole as uninteresting. Yes, the drive is pretty straightforward. However, the second shot plays to a brilliant and maddening greensite, with the front left of the green raised and right side of the green banked up and falling off into a swale. The green is also guarded by three cross bunkers in the original Sandwich style. With a bucket of balls from 190, a player might do well to get 5-10 on the green. Bernard Darwin and Tom Simpson were big fans of this hole.
Deal: Here, the course plunges into the best three-hole stretch on either golf course. The drive plays in similar fashion to the 13th, but the second shot is very exciting--usually a long iron or fairway wood to green that is partially hidden beyond a dramatic, rippling fairway. Like Sandwich's 15th, this may be the toughest green on the course to hit in regulation, running away from the player into a valley beyond. Great contours, good decisions present off the tee, and an excellent greensite. What's not to love?
Noel Freeman:
--- Quote from: JNC Lyon on August 25, 2011, 07:35:13 AM ---Sean,
I'm not sure I understand your argument about the bunker scheme on 13. The two bunkers at the corner guard the best angle into the green--it's that simple. The three bunkers across the middle are strange, and they probably don't need to be there. However, it is a solid par four nonetheless.
Sandwich's 14th is the better of the two holes, no question. While I do like Deal's 14th, Sandwich's 14th is a classic and, as Sean says, it uses the boundary line very well.
SANDWICH 1 UP
HOLE NUMBER 15:
Sandwich: Laid out over the flattest terrain on the course, many dismiss this hole as uninteresting. Yes, the drive is pretty straightforward. However, the second shot plays to a brilliant and maddening greensite, with the front left of the green raised and right side of the green banked up and falling off into a swale. The green is also guarded by three cross bunkers in the original Sandwich style. With a bucket of balls from 190, a player might do well to get 5-10 on the green. Bernard Darwin and Tom Simpson were big fans of this hole.
Deal: Here, the course plunges into the best three-hole stretch on either golf course. The drive plays in similar fashion to the 13th, but the second shot is very exciting--usually a long iron or fairway wood to green that is partially hidden beyond a dramatic, rippling fairway. Like Sandwich's 15th, this may be the toughest green on the course to hit in regulation, running away from the player into a valley beyond. Great contours, good decisions present off the tee, and an excellent greensite. What's not to love?
--- End quote ---
The 2nd string of bunkers on #13 are there for a strong northerly. I've driven into them with a tail wind whilst hard/fast conditions, a real marker has to take that into account during the winter.. So they DO NEED to be there..
I can't believe I disagree with Chappers.
Sean_A:
--- Quote from: JNC Lyon on August 25, 2011, 07:35:13 AM ---Sean,
I'm not sure I understand your argument about the bunker scheme on 13. The two bunkers at the corner guard the best angle into the green--it's that simple. The three bunkers across the middle are strange, and they probably don't need to be there. However, it is a solid par four nonetheless.
Sandwich's 14th is the better of the two holes, no question. While I do like Deal's 14th, Sandwich's 14th is a classic and, as Sean says, it uses the boundary line very well.
SANDWICH 1 UP
HOLE NUMBER 15:
Sandwich: Laid out over the flattest terrain on the course, many dismiss this hole as uninteresting. Yes, the drive is pretty straightforward. However, the second shot plays to a brilliant and maddening greensite, with the front left of the green raised and right side of the green banked up and falling off into a swale. The green is also guarded by three cross bunkers in the original Sandwich style. With a bucket of balls from 190, a player might do well to get 5-10 on the green. Bernard Darwin and Tom Simpson were big fans of this hole.
Deal: Here, the course plunges into the best three-hole stretch on either golf course. The drive plays in similar fashion to the 13th, but the second shot is very exciting--usually a long iron or fairway wood to green that is partially hidden beyond a dramatic, rippling fairway. Like Sandwich's 15th, this may be the toughest green on the course to hit in regulation, running away from the player into a valley beyond. Great contours, good decisions present off the tee, and an excellent greensite. What's not to love?
--- End quote ---
JNC
Sorry, I meant the bunkering right of the 14th green.
Its very difficult to pick a winner among the 15s. Both are wonderful holes. While Deal's drive is too similar to 13 for my taste, Sandwich's drive is difficult, but ho hum. I would usually go for Sandwich in this case because good flat architecture trumps good humpty bumpty architecture, but I like the approach at Deal too much to call it a loser. Half.
Sandwich 3 up.
Ciao
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