Sandwich vs. Deal

[Mark Pearce]

John,

Sean's criticism of the number of bunkers on the 8th at Deal may not agree with your thinking (or mine) but a half?  That's bonkers.  The 8th at RSG is one of the best holes on the course (and I don't agree it's a bland drive into the prevailing wind).  It's clearly a better hole than 8 at Deal.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Mark, you didn't get the memo?

[Scott Warren]

I had it all square through six and it remains all square.

The 7th goes to Deal, one if the most underrated on the course and probably to one I found the greatest spread of scores on. It's a fantastic approach to a quality green, but the drive also has plenty of merit.

The 8th is a no-brainer in the opposite direction.

How can anyone say the drive at the 8th at Sandwich is dull? Have you seen the gigantic crater you need to position yourself next to? And unlike a pot bunker if you're in thete you can still kid yourself you can reach the green and make a real mess of it!! It's a brilliant hole - go to whoa.

Still all square for me after 8. Sandwich will lead by 1 at the turn.

[Sean_A]

Another no brainer for #9.  Sandwich 2 UP.

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

To get a few more yards the tee on No 9 at Sandwich was moved to the left making the line a lot easier to see.  Still better than Deal's 9 but a shame nonetheless.  


On 13 RSG the tee was moved massively to the right making it a long straight Par 4. That does make a huge difference.

A lot of what RSG is about is obscure driving lines, Shame that the best in the world get it easier than the rest of us.

(OK Yes the back tee for 10 is over to the left making that fairway a bit harder to hit)


Scott's last was a good summary  for me.


JNC there was  recent thread that discussed the best lines at Deal and Chappers favoured the left hand fairway bunker on no 7 as the line. I think he's right, but it shows the choices you have to make.

[JNC Lyon]

I don't about mistaken tee areas at Sangwich, but the green and reverse fairway cant make the 9th a thriller.  9 at Deal is the worst on the course.

SANDWICH 1UP

HOLE NUMBER 10:
Deal: Braid redid these holes at the end of the course, and, by all accounts, this one was the best effort.  Maxing out at 360 yards, Deal has classic misdirection off the tee: the player gets the lure of the flag to the left.  However, closer examination reveals that the green falls off severely on the front left and long right, making the best angle of approach from the right side of the fairway.  Two hidden bunkers guard this angle off the tee, and it will take several rounds for the player to get comfortable with a line off this tee.  The green itself is fantastic--the most manufactured green on the course, reminding of something out of a Raynor or Langford course here in the States.  Great start to a wonderful back nine.

Sandwich: The back nine starter puts up a hell of a fight against Deal.  Playing in the mid-300s from the regular tees and maxing out at 410 from the back, Sandwich is one of the shorter fours on the course.  The tee shot is relatively forgiving, but the second shot here is dynamite.  The approach plays uphill to a plateau, skyline green that only accepts the best iron shots.  Recovery shots around this green, especially left and long, are especially fearsome.  Sandwich's tenth is simple, but it is a brilliant par four that is definitely a change of pace from the rest of the course, which relies mostly on low-profile greens.

[Bill_McBride]

#10 was my favorite hole at Sandwich - I'm a sucker for sucker skyline greens! - but #10 at Deal gives it a real fight!   My eye was drawn to the line of charm, drove into the left gunch almost every time.  From there it's almost impossible to hit and hold the green.   The drive IS important, the farther right, the easier the approach. 

It's a draw for me. 

[Mark Chaplin]

I actually hit the 10th at Deal for the first time the other week, drawn three wood with a dash of chase!

[Bill_McBride]

I actually hit the 10th at Deal for the first time the other week, drawn three wood with a dash of chase!

Ladies tee, sir?

[Noel Freeman]

-

[Mark Pearce]

I actually hit the 10th at Deal for the first time the other week, drawn three wood with a dash of chase!

Ladies tee, sir?

That's not very nice.  I've played with Chappers and have no doubt that, with a well struck drive, he can get up on 10 with a 3 wood second shot.  He'd have to catch it well, though.....

[Bill_McBride]

I actually hit the 10th at Deal for the first time the other week, drawn three wood with a dash of chase!

Ladies tee, sir?

That's not very nice.  I've played with Chappers and have no doubt that, with a well struck drive, he can get up on 10 with a 3 wood second shot.  He'd have to catch it well, though.....

Not nice at all really, just trying to stir things up a bit leading into the Buda.

I'm sure the turf was keen and the wind fair and brisk.

I haven't driven a par 4 green in so long.....

So well done Chappers!

[Scott Warren]

Bill, I think you missed Mark's gag.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill, I think you missed Mark's gag.

Yes I did!   

[Mark Chaplin]

Just spent weekend at Kilspindie, Gullane 2&3 (deffo not links courses!) and Luffness New where driving par four opportunities abound.

[Sean_A]

Tough call between the #10s.  Both have merit and quality.  However, I am a sucker for good flat holes.  Besides, seeing the flag on a dogleg hole is one of the greatest visual tricks in the bag.  Deal just pips it.

Sandwich 1 Up

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

I didn't hand out a Half on the front nine, but I'm going to have to start the back nine with one.

Both holes are magic, offering brilliant approaches.

Deal has the more interesting drive, but the recoveries around the green are not as good as at Sandwich.

Two magic holes that show there's no need to rely on length to create challenge.

SANDWICH 1-UP THROUGH 10.

[Mark Chaplin]

Unless you miss 10 RCP short and straight you are left with a very tough up and down. Anything left rolls into a 6' deep hollow presenting a tough pitch from where you cannot see half of the pin. Long and right leave tricky shots to a fast sloping green. Like 5 RCP from 70 yards short on the green the hole is as flat as the British economy making judgement of length very tricky.

[Scott Warren]

Mark,

The recoveries on RCP 10 are definitely tough, but I don't think they are as fun and engaging as great recoveries should be. If we're splitting hairs. A bit more short grass around the green would add to an already great hole.

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott I agree the sea wall should have a collar higher up the bank, the left hollow has been cut back shorter this year making it a better shot.

[Scott Warren]

Good to hear.

Steve L hit it down there in our match last summer and had to hit a lob wedge as the grass on the slope was too long to run the ball up.

[JNC Lyon]

Both greensites here are tremendous, but I'd give the slight edge to Sandwich in that department.  However, the strategy and misdirection provided tee-to-green at Deal is excellent.  Because of that, I'd give the overall edge to Deal.

ALL SQUARE

I'll try to keep this thread moving along, and maybe we can finish it soon.

HOLE NUMBER 11:

Sandwich: This hole is another late edition to make up for the lost par threes when the routing was redone.  Instead of the original drivable par four, Pennick built a long par three over relatively flat terrain.  This one is more interesting than the long 3rd, mainly because the green is set at an angle from the tee.  The slope separating the two tiers in the green is also at an oblique angle, making tee shots and recovery shots around this green very difficult.  This par three was definitely built for championship play, but man's hand is soft enough here to make a decent hole.

Deal: Another one of the weaker holes on the golf course, this longish, narrow par four plays along the boundary line at the farthest point from the clubhouse.  The idea is to hug the left-hand bunker to get the best angle into the green.  This is especially important for the shorter hitter, as any drive right will bring a short-carry bunker into play on the second.  The fairway crosses an ancient Roman highway some 40 yards short of the green, and it finishes in another interesting green.  Not the best hole on the course, but a solid par four nonetheless.

[Sean_A]

I am not overly keen on either hole.  Both seem to be quite lacking in any real merit which seems odd as each have a blank canvas to work with.  Sometimes even championship courses could do with a bit of work.  Half.

Sandwich 1 Up.

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

I'm not going to quibble on a half here but you could mention the sea wall tee at Deal . Great veiws towards Pegwell Bay and thenyou  turn round oto look accross the whole course to the clubhouse.  Deal's 11th is solid, RSG another bruiser.

Anyone else feel that it's on the 11th tees where repeat play shows why people prefer one course over another?

At Deal you realise the test is in many ways just beginning, the tension is mounting..   At RSG you realise the spectacular is mostly spent, the air is escaping from the balloon..  RSG is is abit like RCD in that respect, I have a strong preference for the first 9 over the second at both.

[JNC Lyon]

These two holes halve.  Two of the weaker holes on the golf course.

ALL SQUARE

HOLE NUMBER 12:
Sandwich:  The start of a very solid stretch.  This short par four plays from a dunetop tee to another dunetop fairway.  There is a great line of charm here, with the flag luring the golfer to play too far right off the tee.  The prudent player will stay left, leaving a straightforward approach into a narrow, ridgeline green.  A plethora of bunkers surrounds this green, making a high wedge approach almost imperative.  This is a good par four, but I'm not sure how good it is in a links setting.

Deal:  The start of Deal's monster finish.  The tee shot here runs over relatively mundane land, but the bunkering off the tee is quite good--a short left bunker that is very reachable for most players, directly in the middle of the safe zone away from the right-hand boundary line.  A long right bunker only catches the longest, most aggressive tee shots.  Not particularly strategic off the tee, but intriguing nonetheless.  The second shot here is the real thriller: a long-iron approach to a brilliant halfpipe green.  Misses on all sides can use the big left and right banks to get recovery shots close, and there is nothing better than watching a shot take a slope as planned and snuggle close to the hole.  The green itself is very difficult to read, and players will make few long putts here.