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Anthony Gray

Eternity greens
« on: July 15, 2011, 03:46:34 PM »


  I like them as an architectural feature. It does give the player a semidistorted feel for the distance. They also can be very aesthetic. The ones at Castle Stuart come to mind. What others?

  Anthony


Emil Weber

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2011, 03:49:35 PM »
anthony, can you explain what you mean by "eternity greens" ?

Michael Dugger

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2011, 03:54:05 PM »
He is talking about what others also call skyline greens.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2011, 04:15:15 PM »
no, he;s likely meaning infinity.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2011, 04:26:37 PM »
no, he;s likely meaning infinity.


Like the infinity pools...

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2011, 04:39:50 PM »
Never heard of Eternity greens, but Infinity landscaping is using things outside of the property ie views and perhaps creating the reality that they are part of the property.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2011, 05:29:08 PM »
If Anthony is thinking of skyline greens, I still think of #10 at Royal St George's as one of the finest I've seen.

Mike Hogan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2011, 05:46:39 PM »
Here is an Infinity Green at Nortland CC Duluth, MN.  Lake Superior in the background.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2011, 06:21:30 PM »


  I like them as an architectural feature. It does give the player a semidistorted feel for the distance. They also can be very aesthetic. The ones at Castle Stuart come to mind. What others?

  Anthony



The new fifth green on The Ocean Course at Cabo del Sol perhaps

Ryan Farrow

Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2011, 11:36:44 PM »
I think Mikes photo shows what Anthony is talking about.... With most skyline greens, its not really deceptive, you know exactly where the green ends. I guess an "eternity" green, falls away at the back, so you actually can't see or know how far back the green really extends.


Correct?

Cool concept.... though I am sure accidental in all cases.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2011, 12:02:35 AM »
I'd describe it as falling off the face of the earth. Where a skyline uses the sky, to create the same lack of a frame of reference.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2011, 12:03:15 AM »
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

paul cowley

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2011, 01:06:29 AM »
The 11th green/hole at Diamante Dunes was designed as an infinity green.
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2011, 09:28:25 AM »
I think Mikes photo shows what Anthony is talking about.... With most skyline greens, its not really deceptive, you know exactly where the green ends. I guess an "eternity" green, falls away at the back, so you actually can't see or know how far back the green really extends.

Correct?

Cool concept.... though I am sure accidental in all cases.

Ryan:

It's certainly NOT accidental in all cases.  I have done it deliberately fairly often.  I almost thought Mike Hogan's picture of Northland was a picture of the 12th hole at Cape Kidnappers, which has the same effect (but into an even bigger background!).

The guy who is the biggest fan of them is Mark Parsinen.  Kingsbarns had infinity greens and infinity fairways, too, and I'm told he was counting how many of them they could get at Castle Stuart.  He wanted to use them to bring the landmarks away from the course prominently into view and make them feel closer.  At the course we were looking at years ago in Cabo, he had a par-3 hole lined up on El Arco, which was maybe ten miles away but looked very close behind the green at just the right elevations ... like the moon looks big when it rises just above the horizon.

Mike Keiser liked those features at Castle Stuart and asked Rod Whitman to make as many of them as he could at Cabot Links, too.

Of course, not every project has a big body of water to employ for the infinity look.  But, I still like to set up a few holes per round where the green sits up close to eye level and there is a void behind it for quite a way and then something strong and plain -- a mass of trees, say.  This way the green seems to float in the air and it is hard for good players to attack the flag aggressively because they are worried about going over the back.  We did that a few times at Sebonack and Mr. Nicklaus did not like it at first [because it had the intended effect] ... he was surprised that we were doing it deliberately.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2011, 09:29:38 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong Sandy, but I believe the 9th at DD will have a glorious infinity green against the backdrop of Big Horseshoe.


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2011, 09:36:49 AM »
Yep, that's the flag profiled against the hill, to the right of the lens flare and just to the right of where that ridge descends from left to right.  It's even scarier for the little second shot, except it shouldn't be very long.

We use the same concept at the third hole, and the seventh, and the tenth, and the twelfth, and the thirteenth.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2011, 10:37:13 AM »
Would #7 at Old Mac qualify?

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2011, 01:31:45 PM »
13 at MPCC shore is a good one. 15 can be as well.

Kevin Jackson

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2011, 03:15:32 PM »
As long as the criteria is as simple as there is no visible cut of grass beyond the back edge of the green , wouldn't most Raynor plateau greens, if maintained correctly (the collar is cut enough below the edge of the green), be infinity greens?  Granted, the background could range as close to 10 yds beyond the back edge.  I'm specifically thinking of many greens at Camargo Club.  But there, the background is simply the tree line beyond the green.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 04:23:33 PM »
I think Mikes photo shows what Anthony is talking about.... With most skyline greens, its not really deceptive, you know exactly where the green ends. I guess an "eternity" green, falls away at the back, so you actually can't see or know how far back the green really extends.


Correct?

Cool concept.... though I am sure accidental in all cases.

Ryan, not surprisingly, I guess, I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote. Yes, with most skyline greens, eternity greens, and pretty much any other hidden or disguised feature on a golf course, the astute player does know where the green ends or the feature sits, but that doesn't mean its not deceptive. Golfers don't play a yardage book, some might try, but even when most have knowledge of the course they can still be deceived into playing the wrong shot.

As far as the "eternity green" being purely accidental, your just goofing around, right? You're not really serious...are you? You think its because the designer ran out of dirt to build mounds behind the green?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 08:59:08 PM by Don_Mahaffey »

PCCraig

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2011, 08:21:23 PM »
Here is an Infinity Green at Nortland CC Duluth, MN.  Lake Superior in the background.


Mike,

What hole is that, #15?

I was just there, but we played in a heavy fog and wasn't lucky enough to have that view!
H.P.S.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2011, 08:31:24 PM »
Would #7 at Old Mac qualify?

Bill:  No.

An "infinity green" as I understand it is a green you can see over and see something way in the distance behind.  If all you can see is sky, that doesn't count to me, that's a skyline green.

Plus, on the 7th at Old Macdonald you can often see the bank leading up to the 8th tee, behind the green.

An example of an infinity green at Old Mac would be #2.  It sits up so you can't see anything behind the putting surface until the trees WAY in the distance.  That's as close as we come on that course.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2011, 08:32:29 PM »
11 at Askernish has an amazing infinity green with nothing but the Atlantic Ocean behind it.  
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jeremy Aisenberg

Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2011, 09:18:29 PM »


Does the 3rd at Fishers Qualify? Wonderful hole!

Here is Cape Kidnappers
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 09:48:55 PM by Jeremy Aisenberg »

Mike Hogan

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Re: Eternity greens
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2011, 10:41:29 PM »
Pat
Yes that is #15.
Chris had removed quite a few trees to get this view.
He told me a story about a women who was playing and asked if the water was in play.
I think it's about a mile or more to the water..