The wide open spaces at RSG

[David_Tepper]

Every time I see an aerial view of Royal St. George's, I am amazed about how much open space there is between so many of the holes. It seems that there would have been enough room for 27 or even 36 holes to be routed on that property. Does anyone know if this was ever contemplated?

[Emil Weber]

same thoughts here when I was watching today....

[mike_beene]

and yet they get close to the edges on holes like 14. is that ob really sown the property line? it looks like a ditch is just past it.

[Mark Chaplin]

David - it is an amazing property, having played there many times it always surprises me at the Open walking outside the ropes just how much space there is.

[Scott Warren]

The sense of space is not nearly the same from ground level - don't get me wrong it's an enormous property and it feels really spacious when you're out there, but like when I fly over the national park I grew up in, the view from the air is just astounding and you can't fathom at ground level just how much space there is.

[Will Lozier]

David,

There are numerous public walking paths (visible from the air) that run through the property which most likely restricted (restricts) further holes from being built.  Scott is correct also in that from the ground, while the property seems expansive, you really can't see the acres and acres of space between holes.  I do think that the scope of the place adds to the feeling of having the course beat you up.

[Bill_McBride]

and yet they get close to the edges on holes like 14. is that ob really sown the property line? it looks like a ditch is just past it.

Across the fence is the course of the Princes Golf Club.  The three buildings by the 13th green and 14th tee were part of the original Princes clubhouse.  Now they've been renovated and will serve as a dormy house / hotel for the club.  The modern clubhouse is at the other end of Princes, in the middle of the three current nines. 

[Anthony Gray]

  I thought the same thing David. Looks like none of the holes were forced.

  Anthony

[Tom_Doak]

Sandwich is pretty similar in scale to Ballyneal [omitting the high ground for the first three holes at Ballyneal]. 

There is a lot of "open space" between the holes -- but much of it is in good-sized dunes, and you would not be able to route golf holes through some of those spaces easily without a bunch of blind shots.

[Mike Hendren]

Tom, were you at all tempted to design a dramatically blind tee shot or approach at Ballyneal (more dramatic than 7 and 15)?   While neither Sand Hills nor Ballyneal leaves anything to be desired, I'm a little surprised that neither course features such a hole.

Mike

[Garland Bayley]

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, were you at all tempted to design a dramatically blind tee shot or approach at Ballyneal (more dramatic than 7 and 15)?   While neither Sand Hills nor Ballyneal leaves anything to be desired, I'm a little surprised that neither course features such a hole.

Mike

Mike:

I didn't really think about trying to do it.  I would generally only build a blind tee shot if I liked the previous green too much to lose it, and it was going to take more than a 100-yard walk to get from there to a place you could see where the next hole was going.  In other words, I'd do it as a fallback, but not because I wanted to.

I don't know why that is, to be honest.  I really enjoy hitting blind shots over big dunes, surely more than most architects do.  [Maybe not as much as Mike Strantz or Jim Engh, though.]  I just know that on most projects it would be a struggle to convince a client to let me build something like the tee shot on the 11th at Royal County Down, so I have become used to trying to find a way around instead.  I will think about it some more on the next project where we have big dunes to work with.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Strangely, whilst RSG is on a big bit of land its actually pretty tight now with tee extensions. At many holes tees come close to previous greens or even other greens almost to the point you drive very close to going over other greens. At several points its quite a squeeze on spectator movements too. I dont think there are many opportunities to go further back anymore with tees. It is quite a strange 300 acres, with the stands down you dont really see too much else from normal set up.

[Mark Chaplin]

Adrian its all down to the old ways of design which as you know cut down on the long walks.