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Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2011, 12:17:04 PM »
***
Ballyneal
Dismal River
Kingsley Club
Sand Hills

**
The Olde Farm
Victoria National

*
Arcadia Bluffs
Chechessee Creek
Forest Dunes

Jim Thornton

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2011, 03:58:03 PM »
3.0
Sand Hills
Friar's Head
Cal Club
Boston Golf Club
Sebonack

2.0
MPCC Shore
Erin Hills
Kingsley Club
Galloway National
World Woods Pine Barrens
Hidden Creek
Old Sandwich
Kinloch
Headwaters
Bayonne

1.0
Dallas National
Mountaintop

As an editorial comment, I am shocked that Boston Golf Club is not getting any mentions...it's in my top 5 modern.


David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2011, 04:34:01 PM »
Jim,

Based on Tom's criteria which is that  a  **  course represents a Top 10 Modern if you had seen them ALL then you have 15 courses in the Top 10 with no Doak courses or Bandon courses.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Jim Thornton

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2011, 04:38:14 PM »
David,

I've played Sebonack, which I suppose is 1/2 a Doak.

Never been to Bandon.

Can't rate 'em if I haven't played 'em.

Jim

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2011, 04:51:22 PM »
Jim, I think you missed the point of David's post.

Jim Thornton

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2011, 07:02:59 PM »
Nope, didn't miss the point at all.

What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2011, 07:12:57 PM »
Nope, didn't miss the point at all.

What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?

What is the going rate for a Sleepy Bear these days?
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jim Thornton

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2011, 07:39:24 PM »
Last time I checked, they were 12.95, exclusive of tax and gratuity.

To paraphrase John Maynard Keynes, "My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Sleepy Bears".

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2011, 07:46:09 PM »
I'll drink one for you on Thursday.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2011, 08:12:47 PM »
Nope, didn't miss the point at all.

What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?

Obviously this doesn't make sense if we everyone is playing by different rules.  What are we, the GolfWeek panel?  Someone has nine (9) with ***.

*** - absolutely at the top of the list, or tied for it
Ballyneal
Sand Hills

**   - I think these would be a top ten modern course, had I seen them all
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes
Rock Creek Cattle Co.
Rustic Canyon

* - noteworthy, but not likely among the top ten overall
Bandon Trails
Friars Head

0 - excellent but not quite in the same league as the rest.
Bandon Dunes
Hidden Creek
Kingsley Club
Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 10:21:46 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2011, 08:19:20 PM »
Nope, didn't miss the point at all.

What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?

No, you did but go ahead and post whatever you want.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2011, 09:53:35 PM »
Nope, didn't miss the point at all.

What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?

No, you did but go ahead and post whatever you want.

I thought the purpose was to nominate courses to be voted on.  Perhaps Jim was suggesting that any of those ** courses he listed could make it into the eventual top 10 ranking AFTER they'd been voted on.  Re-read Tom's first post and then posts #21 and #22 for, what I believe, is the clarification of the position you are putting forward.

In any event, I think a list of all *** and ** courses regardless of the number of them fits more closely with the Michelin system; which is what Tom was trying to replicate. 
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jim Thornton

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #112 on: July 17, 2011, 06:56:28 AM »
Precisely.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #113 on: July 17, 2011, 07:42:21 AM »
3.0
Sand Hills
Friar's Head
Cal Club
Boston Golf Club
Sebonack

2.0
MPCC Shore
Erin Hills
Kingsley Club
Galloway National
World Woods Pine Barrens
Hidden Creek
Old Sandwich
Kinloch
Headwaters
Bayonne

1.0
Dallas National
Mountaintop

As an editorial comment, I am shocked that Boston Golf Club is not getting any mentions...it's in my top 5 modern.


Jim:

You can vote any way you want, of course.  The good thing about polls like these is that one skewed vote isn't enough to make a lot of difference.  Statistically, though, your ballot is clearly an outlier.

No one is telling you to favor the same courses that others have chosen.  However, it appears that you've only played three of the courses that are currently in the top ten [Sand Hills, Friar's Head, Kingsley].  Yet you give out five *** ratings and ten more ** ratings.  That's really too many for someone who has only seen three of the top ten; unless you have seen the rest of them and disagree with their inclusion, you ought to assume that some of those other courses are pretty good, and leave some room for them, too.

If you can't separate out the five you put at the top, or the ten below them, that's how you should vote.  But when you take a group of ten courses that everyone else would give *, and give them all **, even though you aren't saying that any of them should be in the top ten ... that ballot doesn't really grade on the same curve as all the rest.  You wind up just elevating [slightly] all of the courses you've seen, relative to the ones you haven't. 

In truth, everyone votes a little too high on these sorts of polls ... that's why as of early results, it takes a unanimous ** vote or *** from somebody just to crack the top ten.  But yours is certainly the outlier of those ballots taken so far.

P.S.  I have not seen Boston Golf Club but was surprised it hadn't got a ** vote before yours.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #114 on: July 17, 2011, 07:53:24 AM »
Nominations are still open until the end of the day for any courses that people think should receive two stars or better.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #115 on: July 17, 2011, 08:00:34 AM »
Renaissance
Oitavos Dunes


Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #116 on: July 17, 2011, 08:24:05 AM »
Ellerston been mentioned?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Ryan Farrow

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #117 on: July 17, 2011, 09:05:37 AM »
Old Macdonald ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Friars Head ***
Rock Creek ***
Whistling Straights  Straits  **
Pete Dye Golf Club *
Mission Hills Haikou - Lava Fields *
Mission Hills Haikou - Blackstone *
Erin Hills *
Stone Forest Golf Club *
Bandon Trails *
Bandon Dunes *
Sebonack *
Black Wolf Run River 0
The Dunes At Shenzhou Peninsula 0
Rustic Canyon 0
Caledonia Golf & Fish Club 0

Not sure if I did this right....


jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #118 on: July 17, 2011, 09:35:22 AM »
***
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes

**
Bandon Trails
Pete Dye ('94? '95?)


Friar's Head and RCCC are upcoming but I would imagine that they're both easily **

Peter Ferlicca

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #119 on: July 17, 2011, 09:46:26 AM »
*** - absolutely at the top of the list, or tied for it
Ballyneal ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Old MacDonald ***
Rock Creek Cattle Company ***

**   - I think these would be a top ten modern course, had I seen them all
Wine Valley  **  (I know I might be the only one but think this is a VERY GOOD golf course)

* - noteworthy, but not likely among the top ten overall
Chambers Bay *
Rustic Canyon *
Bandon Dunes *
Bandon Trails *

0 - excellent but not quite in the same league as the rest
Stone Eagle  0
Club at Black Rock 00
Tumble Creek 0
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 03:40:21 PM by PFerlicca »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #120 on: July 17, 2011, 10:01:12 AM »

As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.



I thought there was interest in courses left off the list?

Mark Bourgeois

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #121 on: July 17, 2011, 01:10:12 PM »
Two I suggest adding as at least deserving of discussion for top-10 status are:
Dye Fore -- not sure if A Gray's mention gives this the requisite two mentions
Pinnacle Point -- is Darren Clarke on here? Perhaps if he has a free minute today he could supply the second mention.

EDIT: George Peper has rang in for Pinnacle:
"The most spectacular course I have ever seen. It simply must be seen and played. The only places I can begin to compare it to are Pebble Beach and Ireland’s Old Head. But it’s set on more jaw-dropping terrain than Pebble and is a much better course than Old Head. This is extreme golf, to be sure, but it is also honest golf. There are no unreasonable assignments, no silly holes—just engaging, exhilarating ones."

Michael Hayes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #122 on: July 17, 2011, 01:29:53 PM »
Old Mac ***
Pac Dunes ***
Rock Creek **
Bandon Dunes **
Bandon Trails **
Sheep Ranch *
Bandonistas Unite!!!

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #123 on: July 17, 2011, 03:07:41 PM »
Two I suggest adding as at least deserving of discussion for top-10 status are:
Dye Fore -- not sure if A Gray's mention gives this the requisite two mentions
Pinnacle Point -- is Darren Clarke on here? Perhaps if he has a free minute today he could supply the second mention.

EDIT: George Peper has rang in for Pinnacle:
"The most spectacular course I have ever seen. It simply must be seen and played. The only places I can begin to compare it to are Pebble Beach and Ireland’s Old Head. But it’s set on more jaw-dropping terrain than Pebble and is a much better course than Old Head. This is extreme golf, to be sure, but it is also honest golf. There are no unreasonable assignments, no silly holes—just engaging, exhilarating ones."

Mark:

Have you been to Pinnacle Point or are you just going by the hype?

Although dramatic, I would not consider it a viable contender for the top 10 from 1995 onward.

Truthfully, if I were to nominate a modern course from South Africa, I would choose Fancourt Links, although I don't think it merits top 10 either.

Bart

 


Mark Arata

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #124 on: July 17, 2011, 07:48:41 PM »
Was Blackwolf Run listed? Does it beat the 1995 tilmeline? Am I the only one who thinks its a better course than WS? Will I stop asking questions soon?
New Orleans, proud to swim home...........