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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2011, 01:03:00 PM »
There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.

As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.

P.S.  Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted?  Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners?  ;)

Jimmy Chandler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2011, 01:30:58 PM »
Top Ten Courses since 1995

OK Tom, here's my list, with a second nomination for Ballyhack. I seriously considered giving both Ballyhack and Kingsley ***, but I decided in the end Pac Dunes and Ballyneal are a smidgeon better.

***
Pacific Dunes
Ballyneal


**
Kingsley Club
Ballyhack

*
Bandon Dunes
Longshadow 

Caledonia just misses, built in 1994, I would have given this one star I think (based only on one play admittedly)

0 but noteworthy

Common Ground
Beechtree (NLE)
Laurel Hill – probably the best public in the DC metro area
The Mines – great fun Devries course
True Blue - I'm surprised no one has mentioned this course at all

0 - decent but not worth paying the $$$$ for

Pinehurst #4



Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2011, 01:37:02 PM »
... what's the matter with you pardners?  ;)

We don't get compensated for our course visits.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2011, 01:39:37 PM »
I feel like I am missing something.  Everyone keeps posting 3*, 2*, etc but I thought we were first compiling a list of eligible candidates for a top 10 modern list (see post 32).  If a course you would have as a 3* or 2* is already on the list, then no need to post.  If it's not on the list, then post it to be added to the list.

What you are missing is that most people read the first post in a thread, then read the last couple and fire off a post.

That results in repetitions of previous posts followed by it getting accolades for having thought of something no one else would.
 :-\
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2011, 01:56:03 PM »
There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.

As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.

P.S.  Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted?  Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners?  ;)

Andy Troeger just played them so maybe he can chime in as Matt.
Mr Hurricane

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2011, 02:00:41 PM »
If still needed, I'll be the second vote for two stars on Sutton Bay and the Quarry at Giants Ridge. I like The Wilderness nearly as much as the Quarry, but I'll hold off on a two-star vote there.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2011, 02:49:00 PM »
added:  Ballyhack, Sutton Bay, Quarry at Giant's Ridge

We are up to 44 courses on the ballot to try and identify the top 10.  I think I will cap it at 50, or by the end of this weekend, whichever comes first.

Jim Colton has offered to compile results for the voting, though I was more interested in seeing the raw data than in starting "another ranking".
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 02:54:14 PM by Tom_Doak »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2011, 03:06:29 PM »
There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.

As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.

P.S.  Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted?  Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners?  ;)

Ask Andy T about those he recently played them.  I've seen them but have not played them, so can't comment.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2011, 03:08:45 PM »
Tom,

How long is the list of just the 3 star courses?  It would seem you could get your top 10 just from those which have been nominated as 3 stars?

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2011, 03:09:12 PM »
Can I give Rock Creek more than 3 stars? It deserves it.
Mr Hurricane

Jeremy Aisenberg

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2011, 03:15:33 PM »
I think the raw data is more interesting especially when also taking into consideration the number of people that have played and rated respective courses.  As my original goal with the post was simply to see what other "modern" courses members of this community hold in the highest regard.  It is clear that there is a lot of overlap, but also a lot of variation.  I am interested to see if 30 people played course X and 90% of those that have played course X rate it 2-Star or better vs 30 who have played course Y but only 20% have rated it 2-Star or better.  Further a course only played by 5 individuals but 100% rate it 2-star or better is fairly interesting to me.  In summary, a table with the raw data would be great!

Jim Colton

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2011, 03:22:44 PM »
Can I give Rock Creek more than 3 stars? It deserves it.

Jim,

 If you felt this way, why did you give 9 courses all ***? Based on Tom's clear definitions, wouldn't RCCC get *** and the rest **?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 03:53:15 PM by Jim Colton »

Anthony Gray

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2011, 03:31:38 PM »


  If you are looking for 50 nominees then Dye Fore would make that list. Not near the top 10 but in the top 50.

  Anthony


Andy Troeger

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2011, 05:47:22 PM »
There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.

As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.

P.S.  Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted?  Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners?  ;)

Andy Troeger just played them so maybe he can chime in as Matt.

Glenwild is a nice Fazio course, but its not in the running for this type of list. Red Ledges is hard and pretty.

I guess since I'm posting that I'll throw my list out there:

***
Bandon Trails
Rock Creek
Pacific Dunes

**
Gozzer Ranch
Bandon Dunes
Chambers Bay

* (1/2)
Victoria National
Kingsley
Alotian

*
Black Rock
Whistling Straits
Shooting Star
Old MacDonald
Ballyneal
Paa-Ko
Ravenna
Tullymore
Colorado GC
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 06:42:52 PM by Andy Troeger »

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2011, 06:05:41 PM »
Andy,

Someone has discovered your password and is impersonating you on GCA!

If not, please tell me why you think Ballyneal and Old Mac have NO CHANCE of making it to the top 10 since 1995?
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #90 on: July 15, 2011, 06:21:50 PM »
Andy,

Someone has discovered your password and is impersonating you on GCA!

If not, please tell me why you think Ballyneal and Old Mac have NO CHANCE of making it to the top 10 since 1995?

« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 06:25:40 PM by Kalen Braley »

Andy Troeger

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #91 on: July 15, 2011, 06:31:49 PM »
The imposter who stole my password also saw my list and noticed that there were 9 courses built since 1995 ahead of them  ;)

I like them both, but if forced to choose the others are better, IMO.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #92 on: July 15, 2011, 06:40:47 PM »
*** - Ballyneal, Pacific Dunes
** - Bandon Trails, Old MacDonald
* - Bandon Dunes, Whistling Straits

Ari Techner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #93 on: July 15, 2011, 09:54:35 PM »
Sand Hills - ***

Pacific Dunes - **
Friars Head - **
Ballyneal - **

Bandon Trails - *
Old Macdonald - *
Bandon Dunes - *
Bayonne - *
Cal Club [should it count?] - *
Chambers Bay - *
Erin Hills - *
Victoria National - *
Wild Horse - *

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2011, 10:03:59 AM »
FYI,

Since so many people have cast votes on this [some on the complete ballot and some probably not], I thought I would quickly add up the results based on the votes we've received.  I also added my own vote on the 22 courses I'd played.

I realize this is not scientific, but you can tell from the raw scores about which courses are more or less likely to change positions if 500 people voted.  Here are the raw scores:

3.00   Sand Hills  (48 stars / 16 votes)
3.00   Wolf Point  (3 / 1) - though this is hardly a quorum
2.81   Pacific Dunes  (90 / 32)
2.76   Ballyneal  (58 / 21)
2.57   Barnbougle Dunes  (18 / 7)

2.20   Cape Kidnappers  (11 / 5)
2.14   Rock Creek  (15 / 7)
2.08   Kingsley  (25 / 12)
2.00   Castle Stuart  (6 / 3)
2.00   Gozzer Ranch  (4 / 2)

1.94   Old Macdonald  (31 / 16)
1.92   Friars Head  (23 / 12)
1.75   Chambers Bay  (14 / 8)
1.75   Victoria National  (7 / 4)
1.75   Wine Valley  (7 / 4)

1.67   Diamante  (5 / 3)
1.67   Kinloch  (5 / 3)
1.67   Quarry at Giant's Ridge  (5 / 3)
1.67   Sagebrush  (5 / 3)
1.54   Bandon Trails  (43 / 28)

1.45   Kingsbarns  (16 / 11)
1.43   Whistling Straits  (10 / 7)
1.40   St. Andrews Beach  (7 / 5)
1.33   Lost Farm  (8 / 6)
1.33   Sebonack  (8 / 6)

1.33   Ballyhack  (4 / 3)
1.33   Cal Club  (4 / 3)
1.25   Dismal River  (5 / 4)
1.24   Bandon Dunes  (31 / 25)
1.10   Rustic Canyon  (11 / 10)

The rest:  Arcadia Bluffs 0.25, Bayonne 1.0, Colorado Golf Club 0.67, Dallas National 1.0, Erin Hills 1.0, Hidden Creek 1.0, Kauri Cliffs 0.67, Monterey Peninsula Shore 0.83, Old Sandwich 1.0, Renaissance Club 1.0, Wild Horse 0.67.

No votes cast:  Calusa Pines, Nanea, Nine Bridges, Oitavos Dunes.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2011, 10:54:14 AM »
Mr Doak,

Will we be doing a more scientific vote? One big omission is that some of the courses with low numbers of votes could receive "0" votes by people that have played them but did not put them on their star list. I know there is one course in the top 10 I would be giving a zero to.

Jim Colton

Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2011, 11:25:22 AM »
Tom,

  I whipped this up last night. I really have no idea what I'm doing with HTML or Java, but this seems to do the trick. Right now, there's no functionality to automatically submit the data to e-mail or a database. In fact, I don't know how to do it to anything other than an alert box. But in most browsers (at least on a Mac), you can cut and paste from the alert box. I suggest you first try clicking on the submit button and seeing if you can cut and paste from the alert box. If you can, you can drag the eligible courses you've played over to the * boxes. If you want to get really into it, you can sort your courses within the lists. Then click submit, cut and paste the alert box information and send me an e-mail at jcolton31@gmail.com or PM. Be sure to let me know if you rank-ordered within the boxes. I can use the data under either method.

In the meantime, I'll try to at least figure out a way for the raw data to get posted on the page instead of the alert box so anybody can cut and paste it. I'm open to suggestions (this is way over my head).

http://www.dunkladder.com/sort2.html

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2011, 12:03:32 PM »
Mr Doak,

Will we be doing a more scientific vote? One big omission is that some of the courses with low numbers of votes could receive "0" votes by people that have played them but did not put them on their star list. I know there is one course in the top 10 I would be giving a zero to.

Mark - I didn't see you vote yet but may have missed it.  You still on the road?

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2011, 12:07:54 PM »
Chris,

I haven't voted yet.  My understanding was that we were still at the course nomination stage and the voting stage would be later.

I am still on the road, but (sadly) I am almost done.  I fly home Monday morning.  Fortunately, I'll be back out in 10 days to visit Jackson Hole, WY and Park City, UT!

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Top Ten Courses Since 1995 - Taking Nominations
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2011, 12:11:38 PM »
Chris,

I haven't voted yet.  My understanding was that we were still at the course nomination stage and the voting stage would be later.

I am still on the road, but (sadly) I am almost done.  I fly home Monday morning.  Fortunately, I'll be back out in 10 days to visit Jackson Hole, WY and Park City, UT!

Oh, I thought Tom was tabulating results already.  Holler if I can help you for access in Jackson Hole or Idaho.